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Recommend me a pair of 120mm PWM case fans. - Page 7

post #61 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Never heard of "4 pin DC".. please define. I know about 4-pin headers with constant 12v on 2nd pin & PWM speed control on 4th pin (usually can also do variable voltage speed control), 4-pin headers with variable voltage on 2nd pin and nothing on 4th pin, and 4-pin headers with variable voltage on 2nd pin and 5v on 4th pin but AFAIK not controlling speed.
I think I know what a "DC fan" is but no idea what "one DC signal" is.... I was taught DC = Direct Current; 12 volt DC or variable voltage DC... but what is a "DC Signal"?

I posted the Asus reference previously in this thread and another one....now i gotta remember where it is smile.gif

ah... thank you Yahoo search ....

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?33662-3pin-4pin-PWM-Voltage-Control

DC = Direct Current, variable voltage signal is what determines the speed of the fans.
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post #62 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

I posted the Asus reference previously in this thread and another one....now i gotta remember where it is smile.gif

ah... thank you Yahoo search ....

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?33662-3pin-4pin-PWM-Voltage-Control

DC = Direct Current, variable voltage signal is what determines the speed of the fans.
Nothing new there.

We seem to have a breakdown in communication here about what a signal is.
To me a signal is
  • signal = a function that conveys information about the behavior or attributes of some phenomenon
and DC & variable voltage are
  • DC = Direct Current = no pulse
  • Variable Voltage = voltage varies.. in fans this changes the fan's speed
  • DC Variable Voltage = direct current voltage varies

What is "DC signal" as used on a 12v DC or PWM fan?
What is "variable voltage signal" as used on 12v DC or PWM fan?

I understand RPM signal coming from fan.. and PWM signal going to fan.. but no DC signal or variable voltage signal.
Edited by doyll - 1/12/14 at 5:26am
post #63 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Nothing new there.

We seem to have a breakdown in communication here about what a signal is.
To me a signal is
  • signal = a function that conveys information about the behavior or attributes of some phenomenon
and DC & variable voltage are
  • DC = Direct Current = no pulse
  • Variable Voltage = voltage varies.. in fans this changes the fan's speed
  • DC Variable Voltage = direct current voltage varies

What is "DC signal" as used on a 12v DC or PWM fan?
What is "variable voltage signal" as used on 12v DC or PWM fan?

I understand RPM signal coming from fan.. and PWM signal going to fan.. but no DC signal or variable voltage signal.

Symantics / differences in the way different industries or cultures is terminology I guess......look at it this way .... what would you call the what controls the rpm readout.
Quote:
The Bitspower G1/4 Thread Flow Sensor is a great way to install a safety valve into your looping loop. Just install this flow sensor into your cooling loop and connect the rpm cable on your motherboard CPU fan header. Once installed the flow sensor will send the RPM signal to the mainboard thus allowing you to utilize the BIOS safety settings. These can also be used on fan controllers and other RPM sensing devices as well!
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post #64 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Nothing new there.

We seem to have a breakdown in communication here about what a signal is.
To me a signal is
  • signal = a function that conveys information about the behavior or attributes of some phenomenon
and DC & variable voltage are
  • DC = Direct Current = no pulse
  • Variable Voltage = voltage varies.. in fans this changes the fan's speed
  • DC Variable Voltage = direct current voltage varies

What is "DC signal" as used on a 12v DC or PWM fan?
What is "variable voltage signal" as used on 12v DC or PWM fan?

I understand RPM signal coming from fan.. and PWM signal going to fan.. but no DC signal or variable voltage signal.

Symantics / differences in the way different industries or cultures is terminology I guess......look at it this way .... what would you call the what controls the rpm readout.
Quote:
The Bitspower G1/4 Thread Flow Sensor is a great way to install a safety valve into your looping loop. Just install this flow sensor into your cooling loop and connect the rpm cable on your motherboard CPU fan header. Once installed the flow sensor will send the RPM signal to the mainboard thus allowing you to utilize the BIOS safety settings. These can also be used on fan controllers and other RPM sensing devices as well!
No symatntics / differences in you example from my definition.

Signal definition in my post is what an RPM signal in doing your post.

RPM signal
signal
= a function that conveys information about the behavior or attributes of some phenomenon


You said "DC signal".. by definition it is not a "signal".
DC = direct current = a continuous electric current flowing in one direction.
Signal = a function that conveys information
I don't see how "direct current" is a "signal" conveying any information here..

You said "variable voltage signal".
Variable voltage = A system of controlling speed by varying the voltage applied at the motor terminals.
Signal = a function that conveys information
I don't see how "variable voltage" is a "signal" conveying any information here.
Edited by doyll - 1/12/14 at 1:05pm
post #65 of 103
Quote:
Signal = a function that conveys information

To my mind, the indication of RPM on a RPM meter is "information"...."a function that conveys information about the behavior or attributes of some phenomenon"

I really don't see the need to go back and forth here.....in my industry, when we look at an RPM indicator, the means how the information gets from a sensor to the indicator we call a "signal". If others use different terminology, I am totally fine w/ that. Once it's understood that two different terms are being used to describe the same thing, it really doesn't matter. Think of engine and motor which are oft used interchangeably.... many argue that cars (internal combustion) have an "engine" and not a "motor" but yet no one seem to get antsy about Detroit being called "Motor City"

http://www.analog.com/library/analogDialogue/archives/38-02/fan_speed.html
Quote:
Fan Types
A 3-wire fan has power, ground, and a tachometric (“tach”) output, which provides a signal with frequency proportional to speed. .... The difference between 2-wire fans and 3-wire fans is the availability of feedback from the fan for closed-loop speed control. The tach signal, when driven by a dc voltage ......The tach signal indicates whether the fan is running and its rate of speed

Edited by JackNaylorPE - 1/12/14 at 1:36pm
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post #66 of 103
A complete breakdown in communication.
You said
Quote:
I am running 10 DC fans off the Phanteks Fan Hub with one DC signal from the MoBo.
What "DC signal" is that????

We have DC power
We have RPM signal.

What is this DC SIGNAL you posted about???
Edited by doyll - 1/12/14 at 2:10pm
post #67 of 103
The one in bold in the library quote .... the feedback from the fan tells the MoBo where it is which in turn results in the mobo sending increased or decreased voltage back in response.,,,it's called a "control loop" as is indicated in the library reference posted.

When my son calls from the side of the road and tells me he's stuck and the motor won't start ... should I recognize the commonly used term he is using and go about getting him some help .... do I act confused as if I have no idea what he is talking about ? .....should we have several phone calls back and forth first discussing whether the term "motor" or "engine" is correct ?

Would you feel better if I said:

I am running 10 DC fans off the Phanteks Fan Hub with one DC signal to / from the MoBo.

Again, and for the last time, this is the terminology which my industry has used since I started designing plants 38 years ago. When we supply information to the the controls group we fill out forms. The forms ask how motor speed will controlled..... and when you answer with Automatic Control ...the next line is for Signal Type and the two answers available are "DC Voltage" or "Other". If the US plant design industry is "whacked" because that's the terminology they want me to use, then so be it. It's not worth the time or effort to me to argue with them and tell them they are wrong. We in the industry all know what we are talking about, we do manage to get the plants built.

There is clearly an rpm signal .... a signal sends information ..... and you can read the information from the signal in your BIOS or monitoring software. No signal.... no info. I don't think anyone else is confused here about whether I am talking about voltage or PWM control so why is this an issue ?
Edited by JackNaylorPE - 1/12/14 at 3:52pm
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post #68 of 103
Library quote?
It is your statement in post 53: D
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

I am running 10 DC fans off the Phanteks Fan Hub with one DC signal from the MoBo.
I ask
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll
I thought you were using PSU 12v DC from PSU and PWM / RPM from/to motherboard.
You answer
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

All MoBo Headers

CPU_1 => Pump #1
CPU_2 => Pump #2

CHA_2 => Phanteks Hub => All fans
I ask
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll
So CHA_2 is PWM?
You answer
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
See post # 53 .... Asus CHA fans are 4 pin DC
I ask
Quote:
I think I know what a "DC fan" is but no idea what "one DC signal" is.... I was taught DC = Direct Current; 12 volt DC or variable voltage DC... but what is a "DC Signal"?
You answer
Quote:
Posted by JackNaylorPE
I am running 10 DC fans off the Phanteks Fan Hub with one DC signal to / from the MoBo.
You have DC power thru hub to fans from MoBo and RPM signal from a fan thru hub to MoBo.. and a Ground.
But no "DC signal"

"CHA_2 => Phanteks Hub => All fans" does not have a "DC signal" going to Phanteks hub and fans or coming from Phanteks hub and fans. There is DC variable voltage from MoBo.. There is RPM signal from fans.

So either we have a complete breakdown in communication or you do not see any difference between a DC power source powering 10 fans and a RPM signal from Phanteks hub from a fan to MoBo.. but no "DC signal". tongue.gif
Edited by doyll - 1/12/14 at 4:19pm
post #69 of 103
Thread Starter 
...I know the discussion is purely academic and helpful but guys, it's starting to read a bit petty here and there, and it'd been going on for days.
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post #70 of 103
on a budget i'd recommend arctic cooling fans but if you got money to burn then noisblockers
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