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No experiance using TEC's, air cooling?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I could not find a TEC setup similar to what I'm looking for, so here it goes.

A lot of people saying that air cooling a TEC gives no advantage over running just a heatsink.
What a lot of people (as far as i'v seen) are talking about are below 10C ...
What I want is below heatsink temperatures using the same heatsink as before.

What I do now:
Heatsink -> CPU = 60C load

What I want to do:
Heatsink -> TEC -> CPU = <60C load


Is this possible?
post #2 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiiX View Post

I could not find a TEC setup similar to what I'm looking for, so here it goes.

A lot of people saying that air cooling a TEC gives no advantage over running just a heatsink.
What a lot of people (as far as i'v seen) are talking about are below 10C ...
What I want is below heatsink temperatures using the same heatsink as before.

What I do now:
Heatsink -> CPU = 60C load

What I want to do:
Heatsink -> TEC -> CPU = <60C load


Is this possible?

That depends, what kind of air cooling unit are we talking about? The Noctua tower cooler? The AMD Stock heatsink? What size peltier are we talking about? Are you using an auxiliary power supply?

The problem is that peltiers move heat in addition to creating their own, and if the heat isn't removed fast enough they can stall. You also just can't slap a TEC inbetween a heatsink and cpu and expect it to work. When the CPU is idle, and not generating much heat, the TEC will dip below the local dewpoint and condensation will form.
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post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS View Post

That depends, what kind of air cooling unit are we talking about? The Noctua tower cooler? The AMD Stock heatsink? What size peltier are we talking about? Are you using an auxiliary power supply?

The problem is that peltiers move heat in addition to creating their own, and if the heat isn't removed fast enough they can stall. You also just can't slap a TEC inbetween a heatsink and cpu and expect it to work. When the CPU is idle, and not generating much heat, the TEC will dip below the local dewpoint and condensation will form.
The cooler is a H50, if that wont work, I was thinking of using my CM Hyper 212.
Size? I don't know, that's why I'm here.
Auxiliary power supply? I don't know, I was thinking of getting some kind of controller that I can adjust myself, or a "auto" one that goes after temp probe close/between the CPU+peltier.
post #4 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiiX View Post

The cooler is a H50, if that wont work, I was thinking of using my CM Hyper 212.
Size? I don't know, that's why I'm here.
Auxiliary power supply? I don't know, I was thinking of getting some kind of controller that I can adjust myself, or a "auto" one that goes after temp probe close/between the CPU+peltier.

You'd be better of with the Corsair unit with some quality fans in push/pull.

The TEC can be controller from a controller but it still needs a power supply.

If you're serious about taking the dive into TECs you should check out this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1424597/krows-tec-controller-build-log

A dew-point proximity controller for TECs that can be used with a normal computer PSU, or an Auxiliary PSU.

I ordered a couple of them, they're currently going for $150 a piece. PM Krow if you want to inquire a purchase.

You'd be best off with the most powerful 40mm TEC with your proposed system, as you're not trying to have amazing overclocks, just low temps.

Honestly though, a really nice liquid cooling loop would probably do you better, be more stable, and easier to set up than a TEC system. With a TEC system, even with just your cosair, you'll need a TEC (about $40) a power supply (at least $100) a controller ($150) and miscellaneous raw materials for modding your hardware/modding new hardware to mount it all in, probably around $50.

FOr that you could just install a quality liquid cooling loop. Look into the Swiftech H320 kits.
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post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thats alot of information right there :> Love it.

So... I do have a 300w power supply somewhere, i'l use that.
Dew point... Could you explain how I can figure out the dew point (in my PC/Where i live)?
Found a 154W TEC... TEC1-12710
Will a PWM regualator work? Like this one: 12V-40V DC 400W PWM Motor Regulator Speed Control Switch External Potentiometer
And some Liquid Tape to cover my motherboard :>

Im going to use old hardware, so the looks or if it dies aint a problem :>
post #6 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiiX View Post

Thats alot of information right there :> Love it.

So... I do have a 300w power supply somewhere, i'l use that.
Dew point... Could you explain how I can figure out the dew point (in my PC/Where i live)?
Found a 154W TEC... TEC1-12710
Will a PWM regualator work? Like this one: 12V-40V DC 400W PWM Motor Regulator Speed Control Switch External Potentiometer
And some Liquid Tape to cover my motherboard :>

Im going to use old hardware, so the looks or if it dies aint a problem :>

This unit would be better suited for you: http://www.shop.customthermoelectric.com/19911-5L31-15CQ-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Module-19911-5L31-15CQ.htm;jsessionid=9421FE4F6F75244BDA28575F90C2DD6D.m1plqscsfapp02

In addition to coating the board with LET I would put dielectric grease in the CPU socket, and put some art eraser around the peltier/socket.

The dielectric grease keeps air out of the socket. Basically, even if it's really well insulated, if there is air in the socket it will condense and evaporate, which causes "pin rot" basically the cpu pins themselves corrode. The art eraser is a VERY poor thermal conductor, so it will prevent the "coldness", so to speak, from being delivered anywhere but the desired target, that being the CPU. It also keeps anything else from the targeted area from being cold.

Proper insulation should belay the need for a controller, if you do it right.

What CPU, exactly, are you planning on throwing under a TEC?
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post #7 of 25
Basically if you are moving 200 watts of heat from the cold side to the hot side. Then you about 400 watts of cooling power on the hot side.
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post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS View Post

This unit would be better suited for you: http://www.shop.customthermoelectric.com/19911-5L31-15CQ-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Module-19911-5L31-15CQ.htm;jsessionid=9421FE4F6F75244BDA28575F90C2DD6D.m1plqscsfapp02

In addition to coating the board with LET I would put dielectric grease in the CPU socket, and put some art eraser around the peltier/socket.

The dielectric grease keeps air out of the socket. Basically, even if it's really well insulated, if there is air in the socket it will condense and evaporate, which causes "pin rot" basically the cpu pins themselves corrode. The art eraser is a VERY poor thermal conductor, so it will prevent the "coldness", so to speak, from being delivered anywhere but the desired target, that being the CPU. It also keeps anything else from the targeted area from being cold.

Proper insulation should belay the need for a controller, if you do it right.

What CPU, exactly, are you planning on throwing under a TEC?
I got 3 old computers that run xp and is about to get tossed cause they are simply to old, but when I read about TEC's now, I wanted to have a go at it, if I fry one, Il just use the next one, so this is just to see "What can a TEC do" kind of setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by dixson01974 View Post

Basically if you are moving 200 watts of heat from the cold side to the hot side. Then you about 400 watts of cooling power on the hot side.
Then I can just forget to use my H50 etc. Damned.
post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by dixson01974 View Post

Basically if you are moving 200 watts of heat from the cold side to the hot side. Then you about 400 watts of cooling power on the hot side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiiX View Post

I got 3 old computers that run xp and is about to get tossed cause they are simply to old, but when I read about TEC's now, I wanted to have a go at it, if I fry one, Il just use the next one, so this is just to see "What can a TEC do" kind of setup
Then I can just forget to use my H50 etc. Damned.


I don't think that 200/400 thing is right, I think he got a little screwy with the rule...

The general rule of thumb for TEC cooling is you want your TEC to remove at least twice the heat your CPU is generating. So if your CPU is generating 200 watts of heat, you want the Qmax of the peltier at the given amp/voltage you're running it at to be at least 400. Now I doubt the cheap computers you're using will have very powerful CPUs, and I doubt they will push more than 80 watts of heat, so that 200qmax peltier should be fine. The peltier will more whatever heat the CPU is generating whilst adding it's own, so you'll probably be cooling around 200watts of heat, assuming you overclock your CPU a bit.
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post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 
That made me understand a bit more. As I know that the Corsair H50 is rated to dissapate 200 watts, Then this is plausible, right?
All I want is to freeze/fry a motherboard, just to see how TEC's work and get familiar with it, I dont want to spend lots of $$$ to do this. If I can get a $30 setup, I'd be thrilled. All I need as I see it is a 200qmax peltier and some plastic coating of some sorts. This is hardware that will go into the bin anyway, so dont worry about having it run more than an hour, since all I will do is to overclock the CPU till it hits the wall or dies of to much vCore...

So what I need is:
A Peltier (ebay)
Liquid plastic (ebay)
dielectric grease(got it)
H50 for peltier cooling(got it)
Thermal paste(got it)
lots of "to be thrashed" hardware (got it)

Please tell me this is all, I so wanna play daredevil with the trashware(hardware)
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