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Build for a client, in need of feedback! (Tons of text, lots of detail)

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I’ve double checked these builds and have confirmed my estimations of life by using multiple sources and forums that have reputations for these things. I’m not brand loyal, I find the best of the best and will build to those terms. In no way shape or form do I substitute performance for cost. If a hit must be taken I will hit the strongest piece such as the hard drive or something else that can be replaced or upgraded!
Your needs:

Photo editing, I take it that you do a lot of this, this means that RAM will need to be higher and will need to have better timings then your standard RAM. You are looking for something like 9-10-9-27, 10 being the timing for the processor to the GPU. GPU brings me to the next thing, you will for sure want a dedicated GPU for photo rendering and the like, it will not be persay built for gaming, however something that will compliment your system.

Hard drive, You will want something bigger than 2TB’s which is completely acceptable! I will and can build to these specifications. Something built for gaming as this will allow for faster speeds, this brings us to 7200RPM or perhaps a SSD with a 5400RPM HDD secondary.

You wanted an i5 which is awesome! I’m glad you like the i5, out of the lineup it’s a great processor. While it’s meant for servers due to the large caches you will notice that server processors are built for speed and speed is what we want! An i7 is available yet that cant do what an i5 can do and to the scale the i5 can do it. Thank you Team Blue (Intel). The i5 has the extra 2 cores over the i3 which is awesome! However, photo editing doesn’t use it, but if we go two screens you will want those two extra cores for the GPU.

You wanted a 23’’(Plus) monitor, I think a 1920x1080 is plenty, I’m thinking that two 20’’ monitors are more fitting for the application. The second monitor can be added later, I may be able to get a deal on dual 20’’s though. I will find out.

For efficiency and footprint reasons I will be aiming at Mini-ATX which is a much smaller computer then ATX. A larger case will provide you more expandability, however you will need more air to cool it. I plan on minimizing electricity use and isolate static pressure, allowing for faster processing. Static pressure is caused by negative air movement, which creates a “dead” spot in the case, creating a heat magnet. A smaller case removes this variable. Smaller in your case is more ideal.

CD Drive smile.gif

___________________________________________________________________
The first build I will be doing will be the performance build, this is going to be the more expensive one and slightly over your budget, however it will offer the faster speeds and longer life. Rock solid build, you are paying for pure quality here.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2pJsJ
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2pJsJ/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2pJsJ/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770 Haswell 3.4GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core Desktop Processor ($309.99 @ Newegg) - i7 has hyperthreading which will greatly improve performance in CPU intensive programs such as photo editing, etc.

Motherboard: MSI B85M-G43 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($72.99 @ Newegg)

Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-2400 Memory ($219.99 @ Amazon)

Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 7750 1GB Video Card ($95.38 @ Newegg)

Case: BitFenix Prodigy M Midnight MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($89.98 @ OutletPC)

Power Supply: SeaSonic 360W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply ($59.99 @ Amazon)

Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($17.98 @ OutletPC)

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 3-Pack (OEM) (64-bit) ($0.00)

Total: $761.30 + 99 for HDD
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-25 13:47 EST-0500)
___________________________________________________________________
This is the build without the GPU and a spare CPU I have laying around, it’s not as pure in power as the SeaSonic above.
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2pJFL
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2pJFL/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2pJFL/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($204.99 @ Amazon)

Motherboard: MSI B85M-G43 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($72.99 @ Newegg)

Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-2400 Memory ($219.99 @ Amazon)

Case: BitFenix Prodigy M Midnight MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($89.98 @ OutletPC)

Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($17.98 @ OutletPC)

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 3-Pack (OEM) (64-bit) ($0.00)

Total: $605.93 + 99 For HDD
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-25 13:52 EST-0500)
___________________________________________________________________
Last but for sure not least! You can have a Core i3 without the GPU. You will be getting rid of two cores and a little bit of cache, however it’s still a solid workstation CPU that will knock your socks off! A GPU can be added if you want to add the extra 99 bucks.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2pJT9
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2pJT9/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2pJT9/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i3-4340 3.6GHz Dual-Core Processor ($156.51 @ Amazon)

Motherboard: MSI B85M-G43 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($72.99 @ Newegg)

Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-2400 Memory ($219.99 @ Amazon)

Case: BitFenix Prodigy M Midnight MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($89.98 @ OutletPC)

Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($17.98 @ OutletPC)

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 3-Pack (OEM) (64-bit) ($0.00)

Total: $557.45 + 99.00 for HDD
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-25 14:00

___________________________________________________________________
Please note, I've had multiple people edit the text, I do not agree with all the claims, so let me know if you see something that is completely incorrect.
Edited by Fremish - 1/6/14 at 9:17am
post #2 of 11
what are you trying to ask from us?

If you are asking for feedback about the quality of the builts, here is what I think,

Why only a 360W PSU in the first build? i7 plus a 7750 means you should probably aim for a little higher. Never hurts to have some headroom.

Also in the other 2 builds you have no PSU listed. Not sure if that is intended.

You say +$99 for a HDD, but you don't state what they will be getting. If you want help we need to know which ones you are going with.

also in all the builds you don't need 2400. You also won't need 16GB in the other 2 builds, and the 2400 isn't necessary there as well.
Edited by Zhood - 1/6/14 at 9:24am
post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
Just to overview the build and inform me if it's solid or no. I just want to triple check.
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
I have a PSU for the other builds. And according to Shilka, the power supply is ample in similar builds that others have posted. I will wait for him to pop his head in. I appreciate e feedback. Client also wanted 16Gbs of RAM and I see the comment on 2400 and I agree.
post #5 of 11
Not as much an expert on power draws as Two Cables is

Might be better if he says something as its not really my strongest area

I do know that if there is not going to be a video card in it 360 watts is more then enough

The semi modular Cooler Master V series is also very close to hiting the US

So if you need a 450 watts PSU and you dont need it right now then wait for the V450
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Seravee
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post #6 of 11
Is there a budget? A profit margin / markup (you don't have to disclose the latter).

RAM: What kind of work he wants to do ? Photo editing? If so what kind (size of files in MP, how many layers etc)

DDR3 2400 is kinda of a waste. stock i7 won't really use it, Photoshop doesn't really care for fast ram...1866 is plenty, and ofc if he will be working on big files (demanding photo editing might lead to dozens or even 100s of layers, so a 15~25MP original might end up being in the "plenty" 100s of MBs in size = many GBs of RAM when deployed, thus 32GB 1866, better than 16GB of 2400.

That said, most likely he won't need more than 16GB. Been working professionally on postprocessing (PP) with photoshop, and tho I have 32GB on my workstation, I have very rarely seen more than 8GB used in a single session (and that is for 3D rendering composites, 100s of layers etc). You need more GB to run more than one programs at the same time.

CPU: Most of the PP processes in Photoshop is single threaded. Few filters use more than 1 threads, even fewer care for GPU acceleration. The impact on the CPU having 2 or 3 monitors for 2D work is minimal. That said the i7 is a good choice regardless. You just write stuff to the client that are not correct, and imho you should not.

Monitor: Should get a 23" 1080p - 24" 1200p IPS. Nough said. 20" and the such, no. Getting a decent IPS as a main monitor and a cheaper secondary for reference is also a valid choice, tho if color accuracy is important, you should get 2x of the same, and use at least a budget colorimeter to calibrate one to the other. (dual monitors are really good for speeding up you workflow / having reference material / images up simultaneously). For 1200p, a Dell UltraSharp U2412M or Asus VS24AH-P are a good "cheap choice" in the $240~270 range. Those are 8bit LUT panels.
The 10bit ones like Dell U2413 or Asus PA249Q give you 100% sRGB/close to 100% Adobe RGB coverage, and are in the $450~500 range.

A Dell S2340M 23" 1080p IPS, will at least get you better color consistency and IPS viewing angles as a budget monitor ~ $160, without the backlit consistency or color range of its bigger 1200p brothers (much cheaper tho). Depending on the workflow, 2x S2340M might be better than a single, higher quality 1200p, especially if you can afford a color calibrator.

Case: You are "fubar"ing the client a bit there too...bigger cases almost always mean better cooling, not worse. That said, nothing wrong with the mATX choice, it is actually preferable for me too. The prodigy X is kinda bulky tho, and pretty expensive for a low/mid budget built. I would get a coolermaster n200 any day over it (think it looks better too, but that's personal preference).
Edited by pcfoo - 1/6/14 at 10:09am
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post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
@pcfoo

Thanks for the info, I did not write the part on the case, I did not know if it was true or not so I posted it here to clarify.i. Am glad someone else noticed it too. The client currently has 8GBs of RAM and complains of lag during photo editing, however with her processor it totally makes sense.

I do not build computers for profit, it is a hobby and refuse to take payment for my work. The budget really depends, I will give her 3 builds, she will then decide on which bullet she wants to bite. I will just provide the information.

Keeping 16GBS In mind, what would you recommend for RAM?
post #8 of 11
post #9 of 11
GSkill Ares 1866 or so would be fine. Stay with 2x8GB kits, so that adding another 16GB in the future is possible without losing your initial investment.
Her lag is more likely due to the CPU as you stated, unless she is really running low on RAM.

Remember that you need 64bit Photoshop to access more than 3ish GB of RAM.

Also, ppl, don't post affiliated links, it is against OCN rules.
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post #10 of 11
Fremish,

CPU: Replace the i7-4770 with an E3-1330V3 to save about $80 on the "top end" build recommendation. It is a 3.3ghz/3.7ghz (turbo) quad core hyperthreaded haswell, just like the i7-4770. 4% less performance, 25% less cost. Not paying for the iGPU, which you wouldn't want to use in a "premium" Photoshop rig anyway.

RAM: For workstation class builds, do not use 2400 speed memory. Achieving those speeds requires overclocking and possibly over-volting the memory controller, which is not a recipe for a long term stable machine and is not even possible to do on a B85 board anyway. Use a RAM kit that has a default XMP profile that matches the supported speeds of the memory controller (in this case, that's 1333 or 1600MT/s). PCfoo is absolutely on point there about the way Photoshop uses memory. It's not the speed/timings that matter, it's the quantity. Every sort of filter or effect or adjustment made will be CPU bound, not memory bandwidth bound. You can use 1066 speed memory here with no appreciable consequence but 1600 is usually available at the bottom of the price chart so may as well.

GPU: The GT640 from Nvidia, and the HD7730, HD7750, R7 240 and R7 250 from AMD, are all good discrete cards for photoshop builds. Anything "more" is *mostly* a waste unless the budget is very loose. Otherwise use Haswell integrated HD4600 to good effect, (though the discrete will outperform the HD4600 by up to ~double in some operations.) XFX wouldn't be my first pick of brand for a workstation class machine but it will likely have no negative consequence (I think my issue with it is very superficial, as I don't much care for "shiny" over-hyping brands and products in professional builds that sound like they are being sold by the Extreme Doritos division of Frito Lay. Like, how many X's can we get into our brand name DUDE! Cowabunga! )

MOTHERBOARD: For a workstation class machine, the motherboard should have a robust VRM package to power the CPU, especially on the build configurations with the more powerful CPUs. The MSI B85M-G43 appears to have a very anemic 3 phase VRM design. Offering that motherboard in a build that you have described as "pure quality" is very misleading. That is about as close to "pure garbage" as it gets for motherboards. I would suggest looking at the Gigabyte GA-B85M-D3H as alternative B85 board option that has a more robust VRM configuration.

CASE: I fully agree with PCfoo on the matter of the case and I speak from experience with a Bitfenix Prodigy. I own one, and consider it to be a poor value case. (learned my lesson on that one the hard way). I would much rather have the N200 at about half the price that pcfoo recommended. Otherwise, if you want to spend that sort of Bitfenix money on a case, consider the Silverstone SG09B, SilverStone SST-PS07 series, or Fractal Design Arc Mini. Or if you really want to go inexpensive here and still have something plenty nice for a compact workstation, the Fractal Design Core 1000 USB 3.0 is often under $40, and there are a number of Rosewill microATX cases around $30 (all made on the same platform) that are perfectly adequate cases.

PSU: The SeaSonic SSR-360GP is a good choice for this build. Alternatives would be the Rosewill Capstone 450W, and FSP AURUM S 400W.

Best of luck with the build,
Eric
Edited by mdocod - 1/7/14 at 7:30pm
     
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FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
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Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
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yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
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Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
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logitec M235 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
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logitec M235 
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