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[AnandTech] AMD FreeSync. - Page 31  

post #301 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Can you share info from the article on how you came to that conclusion?
He didn't say in particular words but the aire of the article and his speech lend to the conclusion that Free-sync is the eventual outcome with 1.3DP and that G-sync got there first. So in actuality he never said Free-sync wouldn't work. I surmise that is because the VESA consortium was pushing that direction and Nvidia being the proprietary war mongers wanted to corner as quickly as possible for their own gain rather than for the whole. Yes it is a business and they can do what they will.
post #302 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moragg View Post

If laptops already use it a decent chunk of monitors, even if they are laptop monitors, that would make it much easier to get freesync into desktop monitors. I doubt more than a handful of OCNers (if that) could explain the difference between the workings of the two, so as to their comparative costs/ease of implementation/effectiveness, that is still out to the jury.

But please, there is no reason to think G-sync is better because it costs more. As of now, it's only true benefit over "freesync" is that it is possible to buy now, and likely be the only option for a while yet.

What makes me excited about freesync is that the presumably low cost and implementation into existing/upcoming standards is that makes it much more likely to turn up in 4K IPS panels - and Oculus Rift.
There's no evidence freesync monitors will be less expensive than g-sync monitors, if/when they show up. Yes, g-sync will be expensive until AMD can compete, but by then g-sync will have a volume advantage, and the AMD version will be brand new. It will likely take years before prices are low enough that every new monitor supports at least one of the technologies.
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post #303 of 388
Interesting Comments by Dave Baumann at Beyond3d on Freesync:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ams
That is a straw man argument. At the end of the day, it is not even close to "free" as AMD is trying to [falsely] portray. And who do you think will end up paying the research, design, and implementation cost for this new technology (scaler asic with variable refresh capability)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Baumann
You're making an assumption that the ability isn't already there in from the hardware perspective.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1819648&postcount=66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ams
And you're making the assumption that the ability is already there and ready on a broad scale from a hardware perspective. AMD makes it sound like this is a trivial and quick thing to implement across the board, when the reality is likely to be far different than that. And like I said earlier, most people will need to purchase a new monitor for this (and possibly a new GPU too), so it is not really "free" at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Baumann
I'm not making any assumptions, I'm very aware of the situation.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1819678&postcount=70
post #304 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

There's no evidence freesync monitors will be less expensive than g-sync monitors, if/when they show up. Yes, g-sync will be expensive until AMD can compete, but by then g-sync will have a volume advantage, and the AMD version will be brand new. It will likely take years before prices are low enough that every new monitor supports at least one of the technologies.
But you have to consider that G-sync has that extra cost going to Nvidia and freesync pays no one, hence Free.
post #305 of 388
When monitors start supporting this, I imagine native FPS displays will be included in the OSD biggrin.gif
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post #306 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockofclay View Post

I wouldn't go so far as saying that. I imagine that if the panel (not the dvi scaler in the monitor) has a eDP receiver that supports PSR, then you'd have a good shot at getting it to work. You'd have to open your monitor up to find out, and you'd have to be lucky that the monitor uses the same receiver chip as a laptop panel (think small resolutions). I would be willing to wager that there are a rare few desktop models floating around that support it.

Panel Self Refresh isn't what's being used here for freesync.

Yes PSR was designed to save mobile battery life but the way it goes about doing that is by storing frames in the panel and powering down other computer parts. When you finally update a web page or turn off the screen saver the frame that is being stored will be displayed. It has no capabilities for updating dynamic frames like movies and games.
post #307 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantmagnet View Post

Panel Self Refresh isn't what's being used here for freesync.

Yes PSR was designed to save mobile battery life but the way it goes about doing that is by storing frames in the panel and powering down other computer parts. When you finally update a web page or turn off the screen saver the frame that is being stored will be displayed. It has no capabilities for updating dynamic frames like movies and games.
I think that was what was confusing the most at first. PSR didn't make sense for Frame rate issues. But then the Vblank part did. Unfortunately AMD went the wide backwards route to make the point of future DP1.3. And you see the mess that came from that.
post #308 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

But you have to consider that G-sync has that extra cost going to Nvidia and freesync pays no one, hence Free.
Nvidia has to know that the monitor manufacturers get to decide whether Nvidia or AMD win this standard war, so I don't see the license fee being big enough to offset the brand premium. Given that, I think it's a good idea for nvidia to include some quality constraints in the license agreement, so that when you buy the brand you know the monitor is within some established benchmarks for input lag and panel quality. I think that would make it worth paying some extra, for anyone that doesn't have the time to dig up technical reviews of a dozen different monitors.
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post #309 of 388
AMD mentions that it's possible to detect if a monitor supports "VBLANK". They obviously don't give any details as to how. So I did a little research, and found that the supported features of a monitor is stored in the monitor's EDID String. Which can be found in this windows registry entry:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\DISPLAY\[yourmonitor]\[yourmonitorid]\Device Parameters]

Export that entry, then edit the file in notepad and copy/paste the data to this webpage: Web Based EDID Reader (edit out the slashes before you paste it)

That will give you a list of all the detailed information of what your monitor supports. It won't refer to a specific feature called VBLANK.
I BELIEVE that what you are looking for is an extension called "Video Timing Block Extension (VTB-EXT)". Though I may be wrong about that.
If the output from that site says Number of Extensions: 0, then you don't have it (most won't of course). But if you have the VTB-EXT, then maybe...

I tried this on my desktop monitors, my HTPC, and two laptops (a Y510P and an old HP). No dice here.

Can others try this out, and see if we find anyone that actually supports this thing?
Edited by wedge - 1/9/14 at 12:48pm
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post #310 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

Nvidia has to know that the monitor manufacturers get to decide whether Nvidia or AMD win this standard war

There seems to be a common misunderstanding here. This is not an Nvidia vs AMD war. This is Nvidia vs everybody else. Nvidia created a proprietary standard called Gsync that everybody must pay Nvidia if they want the privilege of using it. AMD did not invent any standard at all. They just took advantage of a pre-existing VESA standard in their drivers that does the same thing the proprietary Nvidia standard does. There is nothing that prevents Nvidia, or anyone else, from using the VESA VBLANK feature to create their own version of FreeSync. All that's required from the gpu manufacturer is an updated driver. Of course the monitors must support it on the other end, but see my previous post about that.
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