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[AnandTech] AMD FreeSync. - Page 32  

post #311 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post

There seems to be a common misunderstanding here. This is not an Nvidia vs AMD war. This is Nvidia vs everybody else. Nvidia created a proprietary standard called Gsync that everybody must pay Nvidia if they want the privilege of using it.

My opinion is that this is not a War at all. Nvidia is presenting an option for a niche market differentiating themselves from their competition. Nothing more and nothing less than a new option. There's so many hundreds of monitors for sale that will work with all users setup just fine. Currently there's no monitor monopoly, hence no "war"...
post #312 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post

There seems to be a common misunderstanding here. This is not an Nvidia vs AMD war. This is Nvidia vs everybody else.

Just speak for yourself.
post #313 of 388
I'll mention it again. The issue AMD wanted to bring was, well, two fold. On one hand they wanted to bring light to the DP1.3 standards in hopes of getting a higher adoption rate of a possible fix much like G-sync. Second was to point out that G-sync should never be paid for, in terms of licensing fees and the like.

Forget for a moment about the business aspect, clouds up the argument too much. Think of it like this: this tech in DP1.3 (free-sync) has been around a while, maybe up to a decade, I could find as far back as 2008. For what ever reason the GPU - monitor manufacturers never collaborated on this solution, may be because of costs be it money or man-hours. But in all honesty, it should have been implemented for the simple fact that the GPUs we bought technically never worked fully as intended. V-sync came along as a band-aid, Sometimes it was sufficient most of the time not. Then the buffers in their many forms, again some working some not so much. But the point being it was known what the problem was and there was a solution. This is the second point AMD was making.

Within this spoiler is a conspiracy theory and has no fact or proof attached so read at your own risk and don't even try and harass me. You have been warned. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Nvidia knew of the fix being that DP1.3 has it as an added feature and likely was brought up many time before. So it is a possibility that Nvidia hurried a version of this solution to capitalize on profits before any such ratification and to look like they were the saviors of the V-sync dilemma. Cant fault them completely, they are a business looking to make profits where they can. But it does seem a bit under-handed as they never mentioned the basis of this fix was already known and what they built upon. Probably why AMD waited till CES14 to make it known, bigger audience. Any way just a simple take on the hows and whys.

Free-sync (al-be-it this will likely change because of the attention) was never a product but rather an idea, like free the people. They wanted to bring attention to fact that there is and has been a solution to this for quite some time. Whether it ever comes to fruition, I guess there is always G-sync for those that can/want to use it. But at least we know there is a solution and maybe with all this hoopla it will finally find its way to everyone regardless of equipment.
post #314 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Yes, but the only question is, how much will it cost monitor manufacturers to implement VBLANK? I don't know the answer, but from what I'm gathering, not many monitors do VBLANKing, even though it is a standard. I have to wonder why. Does it add cost to the monitor to implement that standard? If so, how does that cost compare to G-Sync. Either way (VBLANK or G-Sync), odds are your existing monitor won't support either and you will have to get a new monitor.

DP 1.3 will be standard in the future, the ability is already build in. There shouldn't be any extra cost associated with this!
post #315 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemer View Post

DP 1.3 will be standard in the future, the ability is already build in. There shouldn't be any extra cost associated with this!

We don't know what's going to end up in the DP 1.3 standard, and whether a new control board is required.

What AMD's "marketing stunt" is doing is raising consumer awareness about the potential benefits to making it a standard, and where there is consumer awareness, there would be demand. By increasing the demand, there's a greater chance that it will be incorporated and utilized.
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post #316 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghoxt View Post

My opinion is that this is not a War at all. Nvidia is presenting an option for a niche market differentiating themselves from their competition. Nothing more and nothing less than a new option. There's so many hundreds of monitors for sale that will work with all users setup just fine. Currently there's no monitor monopoly, hence no "war"...

No no... You've got it backwards. Once there is a monopoly, the war is over and a winner is decided. If consumers have a 'choice', then that is more than sufficient cause for sensationalists to call it a war.
Edited by wedge - 1/9/14 at 3:25pm
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post #317 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Free-sync (al-be-it this will likely change because of the attention) was never a product but rather an idea,

Exactly THIS +1
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post #318 of 388
It's more like everybody vs the monitor manufacturers IMO, no way in hell this was going to get implemented until someone gave them an excuse to charge more.
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post #319 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemer View Post

DP 1.3 will be standard in the future, the ability is already build in. There shouldn't be any extra cost associated with this!

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG ... 1000 TIMES WRONG!

The "ability" that AMD needs to make "FreeSync" is NOT already built in.

JFC, can't people read anymore?

The "ability" that you are talking about is in eDP *NOT* DP 1.0, DP 1.1, DP 1.2.

In case you missed it for the 50th time, I'll say it again ... eDP is *NOT* the same thing as DP 1.x

Then there is the whole issue of the ASIC needed in DP1.3. Heck, not all the ASIC's in an eDP solution will work.

So PLEASE, will you ... and all the others out there who don't seem to understand that eDP and DP1.3 are NOT THE SAME THING ... just stop with the bald face LIE (or total ignorance) that "There shouldn't be any extra cost associated with this" nonsense.
post #320 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG ... 1000 TIMES WRONG!

The "ability" that AMD needs to make "FreeSync" is NOT already built in.

JFC, can't people read anymore?

The "ability" that you are talking about is in eDP *NOT* DP 1.0, DP 1.1, DP 1.2.

In case you missed it for the 50th time, I'll say it again ... eDP is *NOT* the same thing as DP 1.x

Then there is the whole issue of the ASIC needed in DP1.3. Heck, not all the ASIC's in an eDP solution will work.

So PLEASE, will you ... and all the others out there who don't seem to understand that eDP and DP1.3 are NOT THE SAME THING ... just stop with the bald face LIE (or total ignorance) that "There shouldn't be any extra cost associated with this" nonsense.

The difference, in terms of additional cost, between G-Sync and FreeSync is this:

G-Sync requires that the monitor manufacturers pay a license fee to Nvidia for every monitor they produce. Forever.

FreeSync requires some initial R&D on behalf of the monitor manufacturers. But in order to build a new generation of products that support DP 1.3, they have to do that anyway.. So the amount of extra work they need to do to support a single extra feature "VBLANK" is probably not very significant compared to the amount of work they'll already be doing anyway to support the entire new standard. Some manufacturers would probably have supported VBLANK even if FreeSync did not exist. In that case there really is no extra cost at all to support FreeSync.
So, yes, there will be an extra cost to support FreeSync. But it will not be much (relatively speaking), and it is just an up-front cost, there will not be any ongoing costs (like G-Sync). So the extra cost that gets pushed to the consumer will be minimal, if any.


In any case, it is very rare that gaming performance can be improved by a power saving feature. In fact... it's absolutely unheard of! Which means that everybody is going to want this. There will be huge demand not just from consumers, but from manufacturers side too. Which means this won't just be a rare select few monitors that get this feature, well maybe at first. But, it's going to become a standard feature included in all mass produced monitors at some point.

My point is that new products with new technologies always carry a price premium. But only in the beginning. If you don't want to pay extra for FreeSync compatibility, you won't have to. Just wait for the price to come down.
If you don't want to pay extra for G-Sync? Well then too bad, that price will never come down.
Edited by wedge - 1/9/14 at 7:03pm
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