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[AnandTech] AMD FreeSync. - Page 37  

post #361 of 388
I honestly don't know what is more funny. The argument that people think that monitor manufactures will develop a custom ASIC to do something for AMD for free, or the argument that monitor manufacturers will develop a "bastard standard" that isn't an official DP1.3 standard that will be basically a hybrid between DP1.2 and eDP1.0 just so that one company (that doesn't hold even a 38% marketshare) can claim that this is a new "FREE" thing all because some loose lipped PR people at that company can save face because their competitor, who is the market share leader, paid for the development costs and worked with multiple monitor manufacturers BEFORE dropping the bombshell to the world.
post #362 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

I honestly don't know what is more funny. The argument that people think that monitor manufactures will develop a custom ASIC to do something for AMD for free, or the argument that monitor manufacturers will develop a "bastard standard" that isn't an official DP1.3 standard that will be basically a hybrid between DP1.2 and eDP1.0 just so that one company (that doesn't hold even a 38% marketshare) can claim that this is a new "FREE" thing all because some loose lipped PR people at that company can save face because their competitor, who is the market share leader, paid for the development costs and worked with multiple monitor manufacturers BEFORE dropping the bombshell to the world.

This is the reason I asked in the G-sync thread months ago, if Nvidia had any patents on this technology.

Both Nvidia or AMD's solution will require custom hardware, so what's the difference? When customer start choosing montiors with variable vsync technology over standard monitors, it's only a matter of time before it's the defacto standard. Yeah we are talking years, but I'd bet an open standard would be more quickly implemented than a closed one.
Edited by BinaryDemon - 1/10/14 at 6:52pm
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post #363 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post

Wow. Just wow. The extent to which you put words in peoples mouths is awe inspiring. You should work for the government. Or become a lawyer or something.
If you actually read anything anyone was saying, you would know that nobody is saying that. They won't do it for AMD. They will do it for themselves. It's called competitiveness and the free market. Customer demand drives everything.
No he would make a terrible lawyer. But I agree it is too funny that they think AMD has to be some big part of this. If for one second these monitor manufacturers believe that making this new ASIC makes them money they will do it with or with AMDs blessing. Gotta figure there may be a few that would do it just to screw Nvidia. Proprietary ruffles a lot of feathers.
post #364 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

I agree. BOTH require new hardware.

But you don't see nVidia running around taking pot shots at AMD trying to make the claim that it is FREE.

That is my point.

I agree, eventually, one of them will be the defacto standard. Odds are, that will be G-Sync. Why? Because the standard is ALREADY developed, the ASIC is already developed, and multiple monitor manufacturers are ALREADY making monitors. AMD is at LEAST a year, if not two, away before they get the first desktop monitor sold.
I don't think so as far as G-sync simply put because it only worked with Kepler. Vblank seems to be less GPU specific. Now maybe Nvidia made G-sync specific to Kepler to get some to upgrade.
post #365 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

No he would make a terrible lawyer. But I agree it is too funny that they think AMD has to be some big part of this. If for one second these monitor manufacturers believe that making this new ASIC makes them money they will do it with or with AMDs blessing. Gotta figure there may be a few that would do it just to screw Nvidia. Proprietary ruffles a lot of feathers.
AMD's support for variable framerate is a prerequesite, not a justification for implementing freesync. The justification would be losing sales due to the popularity of g-sync monitors. This means the monitor manufacturers have a choice between licensing g-sync and producing a high margin display, or funding their own development and producing a low margin competitor to g-sync. The cost/benefit for monitor manufacturers is going to stay with g-sync until volumes get huge, until nvidia's license terms get ridiculous, or until AMD decides to subsidize the development costs. After one or more of those things happen, there's still a delay for development, production, and distribution.
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post #366 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

I don't think so as far as G-sync simply put because it only worked with Kepler. Vblank seems to be less GPU specific. Now maybe Nvidia made G-sync specific to Kepler to get some to upgrade.

Huh?

G-Sync works with Kepler (aka 600 series and 700 series and Titan) and will work with the Maxwell series (aka 800 series) ... or do you honestly think that nVidia is developing G-Sync to be sold in 2014 and only work on cards that were made in the year 2012 and 2013, and will not work with their new line of cards that is coming out in 2014 also?

Seriously?


If you want to talk about companies developing technology specifically to get people to upgrade, let's talk AMD and Mantle. It only benefits from the very latest of last generation cards (ie 7700 and higher) and the brand new R9 series cards that just came out. It does NOTHING for many cards that are only 1 generation old. At least nVidia is supporting cards from the past 2 generations, 3 if you could the Maxwell line which is due out about the same time when G-Sync hits.
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 1/10/14 at 7:09pm
post #367 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

AMD's support for variable framerate is a prerequesite, not a justification for implementing freesync. The justification would be losing sales due to the popularity of g-sync monitors. This means the monitor manufacturers have a choice between licensing g-sync and producing a high margin display, or funding their own development and producing a low margin competitor to g-sync. The cost/benefit for monitor manufacturers is going to stay with g-sync until volumes get huge, until nvidia's license terms get ridiculous, or until AMD decides to subsidize the development costs. After one or more of those things happen, there's still a delay for development, production, and distribution.

Another good question is what happens if Vblank becomes an optional part of DP1.3 and not part of the standard. Does Nvidia support it then, or do they refuse to support it in favor of G-sync, thereby forcing the monitor manufacturers to choose which to support (assuming supporting both is impractical). It would seem to be in Nvidia's interest to not support an optional Vblank, if by doing so they could torpedo adoption of it in favor of the pre-existing G-sync.
post #368 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

This means the monitor manufacturers have a choice between licensing g-sync and producing a high margin display, or funding their own development and producing a low margin competitor to g-sync.

G-Sync monitors may be high margin (depends greatly on the unknown licensing fee amount). But they will definitely be low volume. They can't be marketed to anyone but hardcore gamers with nvidia gpu's, that is a very small percentage of computer users. Companies don't like going out of their way to create low-volume products.
Monitors that support VBLANK and FreeSync on the other hand, maybe not so much margin, but far far more volume. Because they can be marketed to everybody. BOTH AMD and Nvidia owners, because there's nothing stopping Nvidia from implementing their own "FreeSync" that uses the VESA VBLANK instead of their G-Sync. And even non-gamers would be interested in those monitors if they are marketed as being more power efficient.
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post #369 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post

G-Sync monitors may be high margin (depends greatly on the unknown licensing fee amount). But they will definitely be low volume. They can't be marketed to anyone but hardcore gamers with nvidia gpu's, that is a very small percentage of computer users. Companies don't like going out of their way to create low-volume products.
Monitors that support VBLANK and FreeSync on the other hand, maybe not so much margin, but far far more volume. Because they can be marketed to everybody. BOTH AMD and Nvidia owners, because there's nothing stopping Nvidia from implementing their own "FreeSync" that uses the VESA VBLANK instead of their G-Sync. And even non-gamers would be interested in those monitors if they are marketed as being more power efficient.

I think it's low margin (from a demand perspective) either way. Your average monitor buyer isn't going to know or care about Free-sync (or power consumption). Most people don't know about TN/IPS and that's a much bigger deal. Heck, most people think LED and LCD are two different things (as in, should I buy a LCD monitor, or a LED one).
post #370 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Another good question is what happens if Vblank becomes an optional part of DP1.3 and not part of the standard. Does Nvidia support it then, or do they refuse to support it in favor of G-sync, thereby forcing the monitor manufacturers to choose which to support (assuming supporting both is impractical). It would seem to be in Nvidia's interest to not support an optional Vblank, if by doing so they could torpedo adoption of it in favor of the pre-existing G-sync.

Again, Nvidia would be foolish not to support VBLANK. Remember that their goal is to sell GPU's. If their GPU's require a more expensive monitor in order to achieve their best performance, then they won't sell so good. Especially if AMD does just as good or better with a cheaper monitor.
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