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post #191 of 286
Doesn't am3+ have a bandwidth flaw which bottlenecks 2 card setups? Hypertransport system or something like that?
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post #192 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Doesn't am3+ have a bandwidth flaw which bottlenecks 2 card setups? Hypertransport system or something like that?

AM3+ is, like, in the stone age of modern computing basically.
   
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post #193 of 286
990FX has 42 PCIe 2.0 lanes. Z87 has just 16 3.0 lanes I believe. Bandwidth for GPUs really does not matter unless you're trying to run a dual GPU in an x16 @ x4 slot for some reason. Lack of USB 3.0 support is a little annoying but there's enough PCIe bandwidth to compensate. I wouldn't call it too outdated except for the external northbridge. Kaveri has everything on-die.

EDIT: Although yeah, HT is an issue. You can alleviate it a bit by setting it to run at 2600MHz all the time.
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post #194 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

990FX has 42 PCIe 2.0 lanes. Z87 has just 16 3.0 lanes I believe. Bandwidth for GPUs really does not matter unless you're trying to run a dual GPU in an x16 @ x4 slot for some reason. Lack of USB 3.0 support is a little annoying but there's enough PCIe bandwidth to compensate. I wouldn't call it too outdated except for the external northbridge. Kaveri has everything on-die.

EDIT: Although yeah, HT is an issue. You can alleviate it a bit by setting it to run at 2600MHz all the time.

There's a 'problem' with PCIe 2.x latency and overhead that gives PCIe 3 an edge, even when bandwidth is not an issue.

Not a problem, but PCIe3 has much less overall latency and overhead.

From wiki:
Quote:
PCIe 3.0 upgrades the encoding scheme to 128b/130b from the previous 8b/10b encoding, reducing the overhead to approximately 1.54% ((130–128)/130), as opposed to the 20% overhead of PCIe 2.0. This is achieved by a technique called "scrambling" that applies a known binary polynomial to a data stream in a feedback topology. Because the scrambling polynomial is known, the data can be recovered by running it through a feedback topology using the inverse polynomial.[28] PCIe 3.0's 8 GT/s bit rate effectively delivers 985 MB/s per lane, practically doubling the lane bandwidth relative to PCIe 2.0.

Alongside with the aforementioned bandwidth improvement.
   
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post #195 of 286
I wasn't aware that helped latency. I thought that was just for increased bandwidth without increasing transfers to 10GT/s.
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post #196 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

There are quite a few games that are notoriously CPU bound even at high resolutions. RTS games like Sins of a Solar Empire and Starcraft 2 being primary culprits.
how old are those games though? I did say the last two years and there was an occasional exception
post #197 of 286
I am also not aware of any tangible performance benefit to an 8X PCIE 3.0 vs 16X PCIE 2.0 slot. Given current GPUs, and popular multi-card solutions of today, the PCIE express configuration of the AM3+ platform is still competitive with the 1155/1150 socket platforms. If AMD could surprise us with a SR chip or better bins of PD to slip into AM3+, I see no reason it can't hold out till DDR4 brings new platforms across the board.


From my perspective, as a linux user, who will pretty much always be playing "older" games under less than ideal conditions (wine, openGL), CPU performance does count for gaming. Furthermore, there are numerous examples of what I would classify as "timeless" RTS games, that have always been CPU bound when pushed to unit count maximums regardless of OS and hardware. There's no amount of "excusing" the performance of a CPU in these game titles that will solve the performance problem in them because there's not going to be a software side fix for it. The only path available to "solve" the performance problem for a badly optimized piece of software that will not be re-written is to either A: not use it, or B: improve hardware performance to overcome the deficiency. If I'm trying to defend AMD CPU performance, then my best coarse of action would be to encourage option "A" by sharing a series of negative opinions about said software. As it would turn out, for most of that "poorly optimized" category of software out there, Intel offers a better way to overcome the software deficiency with better IPCC characteristics. Yes, Intel is better at running poorly optimized software (lightly threaded and/or utilizing older instruction sets).
Edited by mdocod - 1/12/14 at 4:20pm
     
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post #198 of 286
Do people actually buy these APUs and go play games at 800x600 or 1280x720 all low settings with no AA as this review has tested? While still failing to reach 60fps?
post #199 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post

Do people actually buy these APUs and go play games at 800x600 or 1280x720 all low settings with no AA as this review has tested? While still failing to reach 60fps?

I dont really understand why anyone would buy these APU's. 4130 with some discreet gpu would probably game a hell of a lot better especially at 1080p
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post #200 of 286
Ur silly. You're going to spend about twice as much for an i3 + dGPU as you would on a 7850k. Also, you can spend about the same and hybrid crossfire. i3 + 260X < A10 + 260X in graphics horsepower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post

Do people actually buy these APUs and go play games at 800x600 or 1280x720 all low settings with no AA as this review has tested? While still failing to reach 60fps?

That's why I'm skeptical. BF4 on medium @ 30FPS is no joke and that's what was demo'd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

I am also not aware of any tangible performance benefit to an 8X PCIE 3.0 vs 16X PCIE 2.0 slot. Given current GPUs, and popular multi-card solutions of today, the PCIE express configuration of the AM3+ platform is still competitive with the 1155/1150 socket platforms. If AMD could surprise us with a SR chip or better bins of PD to slip into AM3+, I see no reason it can't hold out till DDR4 brings new platforms across the board.

PCIe 3.0 @ x1 < 2.0 @ x2 by just 15MB/s. It's negligible but still less. Hypertransport does kind of suck. In an entirely GPU-limited situation where the only difference is the chipset (i.e. both having the same PCIe bandwidth), who wins? Intel running crossfire/SLI would by a somewhat significant margin.
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