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[Puget Systems] AMD A10-7850K Performance Review - Page 27

post #261 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyStarV View Post

The framtimes for Dual with 6670 were horrible though. Hopefully Catalyst 14.1 fixes this or GCN 1.1 fixes it

A bit of both, most likely. See, the problem wasn't hybrid crossfire being bad. The problem was crossfire through the PCIe bus. It technically works, but the stuttering is horrendous. GCN 1.1 fixed it completely; you don't see Hawaii owners complaining, do you? I'm hopeful that a 7850k + 260X will rock your socks off for a $600 build.
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post #262 of 286
I think there's a lot more to the issue than "crossfire over PCIE had problems." That doesn't even begin to cover the scope of challenges in the way of getting an asymmetrical hardware configuration heavily saturated with work AND delivering frames smoothly. Xfire configurations of Hawii discrete GPUs are symmetrical, so frame pacing there is pretty straightforward.
Edited by mdocod - 1/13/14 at 4:19pm
     
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post #263 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

I think there's a lot more to the issue than "crossfire over PCIE had problems." That doesn't even begin to cover the scope of challenges in the way of getting an asymmetrical hardware configuration heavily saturated with work AND delivering frames smoothly.

Also something GCN 1.1 has supposedly fixed. Does anybody with a 240 and a 290X care to test? tongue.gif
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post #264 of 286
I wonder if the XDMA fixe can be applied in software. I have an 7750 I could pair with a Kaveri build.
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post #265 of 286
There's more to symmetry/asymmetry than the core configuration. Even if one were to make a perfect replica of the iGPU core configuration in Kavari, and place it on a PCIE card (with it's own dedicated VRAM), the hybrid configuration with that card would have unpredictable and ever changing asymmetrical characteristics due to many factors.

A pair of discrete GPU's with different core configurations have a much more predictable latency characteristic, and as such, can be combined with less frame pacing issues and less overhead to correct for it.
Edited by mdocod - 1/13/14 at 4:29pm
     
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post #266 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Also something GCN 1.1 has supposedly fixed. Does anybody with a 240 and a 290X care to test? tongue.gif

I will be testing with a R9 290 (or two) in the near future.
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post #267 of 286
Quote:

Yeah, but they're not both dGPUs, and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

There's more to symmetry/asymmetry than the core configuration. Even if one were to make a perfect replica of the iGPU core configuration in Kavari, and place it on a PCIE card (with it's own dedicated VRAM), the configuration would have unpredictable and ever changing asymmetrical characteristics due to many factors.

A pair of discrete GPU's with different core configurations have a much more predictable latency characteristic, and as such, can be combined with less frame pacing issues and less overhead to correct for it.

...that man has an extremely good point.
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post #268 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

/sigh check the supported 6670 results...
This was apparent. Again, your stance has no real world backing and since asymmetric hybrid crossfire was not supported in previous generations, you can't assert anything based on your observation of data based on Richland hybrid crossfire. In addition, your assertion that it would not be cost effective to run hybrid crossfire is also misplaced. Without understanding the compatibility of crossfire configurations, you are unable to assert whether there are options within a specific budget that would better suit a discrete card with an Intel solution.
Exactly this XDMA the new drivers and in supported games Mantle will make sure everything goes just fine. wink.gif

The simplest fix in a perfect world is to order the full frames in a frame buffer to send them out when needed of course this process is time limited in the real world.
Edited by maarten12100 - 1/13/14 at 4:38pm
post #269 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

When my i7 3820 at 4.3 ghz lags on Starcraft 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire, how the hell is any AMD CPU going to not lag? Also, let's not forget the Supreme Commander series.

Both lag so badly that it tends to make little difference in my experience, you get 5-10 extra minutes of relatively smooth game-play from IPC alone. (FX-4170 vs i5 3570k @ 4.5)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Cant speak to those, don't have em, but the ones I listed have similar claims. Besides I do a lot of wonders with my Rig. I am never satisfied with good enough. I will tweak for weeks till I find the issue causing the problem.

Hint: it isn't always the CPU.

Have you even played either of them? How is it not the CPU when my HDD isn't loading anything at all, my GPU is at ~10-20% usage and one or two cores of my CPU are at 100% non-stop? And how is it not the CPU when I can OC or even underclock my GPU with zero FPS difference but even 300Mhz extra on the CPU puts my fps up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post


You fell into the trap of thinking everyone plays modern AAA games that require demanding requirements. They don't. Also I know the real world performance is greater than the spec's would suggest. My A10-5800k is playing games a lot better than i would of thought, most settings are low- medium @1080p running 40-60fps, Some slightly older games im at 80 - 90 fps on high settings. Of course these arent designed to take on discrete graphics and a expensive CPU, when people quote comparisons the cost usually comes out double that of the APU system rolleyes.gif

It's funny, even my HD4200 @ 1Ghz with 128MB DDR3 sideport and 1GB system RAM was able to play Fallout New Vegas at 1080p and get 30fps on medium. Personally, I think that while they only get 30-40fps on these settings they'd still scale fairly well to resolution. I wish we'd also get iGPU benchmarks on an even playing field with proper GPUs, that way we'd actually know how fast say, Iris Pro is compared to a GTX 770 or the like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exilon View Post

Has AMD fixed frame pacing on hybrid crossfire? If not, then what I say stands.

Frame pacing isn't an issue for everyone though, I know I ran CFX back in 2010 with two HD4890s and didn't notice the stuttering. For something not anecdotal, nVidia had it until the GTX 6*0 (Something people seem to ignore commonly when this is brought up) which just goes to show that it's the source of the microstutter in multi-GPU set ups, it's great that nVidia worked out how to fixed it which has forced/is forcing AMD to pull their finger out and fix it too but don't pretend that everyone notices it, because chances are if you ran a CFX or SLI set up prior to Kepler and didn't notice increased stutter versus a single card you're not going to notice it to this day.
    
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post #270 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Frame pacing isn't an issue for everyone though, I know I ran CFX back in 2010 with two HD4890s and didn't notice the stuttering. For something not anecdotal, nVidia had it until the GTX 6*0 (Something people seem to ignore commonly when this is brought up) which just goes to show that it's the source of the microstutter in multi-GPU set ups, it's great that nVidia worked out how to fixed it which has forced/is forcing AMD to pull their finger out and fix it too but don't pretend that everyone notices it, because chances are if you ran a CFX or SLI set up prior to Kepler and didn't notice increased stutter versus a single card you're not going to notice it to this day.

That isn't what FCAT showed though. It showed that a majority of the frames were way too small and contributed nothing, rendering the second card useless. So while FRAPS fps was very high, motion quality improvement was mostly placebo in many games. Tom's Hardware review just reveals that it is still the case for hybrid crossfire. Even though FRAPS fps is higher, it contributes little to final output.
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