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[Puget Systems] AMD A10-7850K Performance Review - Page 5

post #41 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

That's because the bias in R11.5, while there, didn't actually affect the results all that much. Usually bringing up bias when it came to discussing R11.5 results was just a quick way to dismiss overclocked and enthusiast comparisons between CPUs (and while probably not intentionally, it also directed the comparisons to review results made using stock CPUs).

What are you on about? If AMD processors are penalized (and we do know they are penalized) how is it possible that results are not affected "all that much"?If compiler bias shows them 10 or 20% slower than they would perform while running same instruction sets,how is that not "much"?
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post #42 of 286
10-20% here or there is nothing rolleyes.gif
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post #43 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

What are you on about? If AMD processors are penalized (and we do know they are penalized) how is it possible that results are not affected "all that much"?If compiler bias shows them 10 or 20% slower than they would perform while running same instruction sets,how is that not "much"?

So what tests actually showed that the bias in R11.5 affected AMD results by 10% or 20%? I'm not aware of any tests like that. Actually I'm not aware of any tests that showed anything about R11.5 performing differently on different instruction sets on AMD hardware. Mainly because as far as I'm aware no such test was ever made.

My conclusion on the bias not affecting the results all that much is mainly based on:

1) The results made sense (8350 very close to 3770K both at stock etc.)

And more importantly:

2) R15 results are relatively close to R11.5 ones when comparing intel and AMD CPUs. R11.5 has bias, R15 doesn't. Therefore it's a pretty reasonable assumption that R11.5 while biased, didn't skew the results all that much.

Not that it really matters in this case, all of us know that cine is perfectly fine for comparing AMD vs. AMD.
 
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post #44 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

So what tests actually showed that the bias in R11.5 affected AMD results by 10% or 20%? I'm not aware of any tests like that. Actually I'm not aware of any tests that showed anything about R11.5 performing differently on different instruction sets on AMD hardware. Mainly because as far as I'm aware no such test was ever made.

My conclusion on the bias not affecting the results all that much is mainly based on:

1) The results made sense (8350 very close to 3770K both at stock etc.)

And more importantly:

2) R15 results are relatively close to R11.5 ones when comparing intel and AMD CPUs. R11.5 has bias, R15 doesn't. Therefore it's a pretty reasonable assumption that R11.5 while biased, didn't skew the results all that much.

Not that it really matters in this case, all of us know that cine is perfectly fine for comparing AMD vs. AMD.

Must be quite disappointing for the APU fans, I really don't see the point of this release. I doubt it will OC better than Richland
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post #45 of 286
I dont know why this is on hardware news. Nda is on 16
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post #46 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

So what tests actually showed that the bias in R11.5 affected AMD results by 10% or 20%? I'm not aware of any tests like that. Actually I'm not aware of any tests that showed anything about R11.5 performing differently on different instruction sets on AMD hardware. Mainly because as far as I'm aware no such test was ever made.

My conclusion on the bias not affecting the results all that much is mainly based on:

1) The results made sense (8350 very close to 3770K both at stock etc.)

And more importantly:

2) R15 results are relatively close to R11.5 ones when comparing intel and AMD CPUs. R11.5 has bias, R15 doesn't. Therefore it's a pretty reasonable assumption that R11.5 while biased, didn't skew the results all that much.

Not that it really matters in this case, all of us know that cine is perfectly fine for comparing AMD vs. AMD.
WRONG. What is the inherent speed difference between AVX and AVX2? In other words running a particular algorithm what is the time difference between AVX and AVX2? AVX2 is roughly half the time of AVX. So what is the difference between AVX and SSE2? Bet you will find a consistent time as well. So in 11.5 there is an inherent bias and that is why you really cant compare across manufacturers. R15 is closer to equal but haven't seen any proof on compilers. We already know they use ICC and that alone has an inherent bias.
post #47 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

WRONG. What is the inherent speed difference between AVX and AVX2? In other words running a particular algorithm what is the time difference between AVX and AVX2? AVX2 is roughly half the time of AVX. So what is the difference between AVX and SSE2? Bet you will find a consistent time as well. So in 11.5 there is an inherent bias and that is why you really cant compare across manufacturers. R15 is closer to equal but haven't seen any proof on compilers. We already know they use ICC and that alone has an inherent bias.

This would all fine and dandy if R11.5 actually supported AVX but it doesn't. Even R15 doesn't.
Quote:
The new version runs only on 64bit systems, but still provides no support for current instruction sets such as Intel's AVX.

http://www.hardwareluxx.com/index.php/news/software/benchmarks/28060-cinebench-r15-released.html

Cine 11.5 specifically uses SSE2 for all chips:
Quote:
CineBench 11.5 requires SSE2 compatible cpus. There is no differentiation between Intel or AMD cpus (the
> compilers are set to create SSE2 code without creating jump code for different cpus or cpu vendors).

http://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=135978&curpostid=136051
 
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post #48 of 286
Same flawed architecture, not a surprise
post #49 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlDyer View Post

Must be quite disappointing for the APU fans, I really don't see the point of this release. I doubt it will OC better than Richland

This means that you tehnicaly do not understand what is "hUMA/HSA Kaveri APU", Richland APU is a dead for such temporary APU concept=Richland APU on the way to the right or final APU. Richland APU is scrapped no doubt, and his outdated VLIW4 GPU arhitecture is another big part of the problem.Kaveri APU and its successors are the future, but obviously you do not understand this in detail.wink.gif




The bigest improvments on Kaveri APU is at lower 45W TDP models, means much higher CPU frequency+higher IPC(OEM manufactures love this) when you comparing them with the same 45W TDP Richland APU models links below. smile.gif

http://www.overclock.net/t/1456226/baidu-amd-kaveri-early-review/170#post_21522401

http://www.overclock.net/t/1456226/baidu-amd-kaveri-early-review/170#post_21522539
Edited by Asterox - 1/8/14 at 5:54am
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post #50 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

In case anyone is wondering what a 4340 would pull in these tests.

Simulated 4340 @ 3.6Ghz with 2133 Memory at 10-11-11-30-1T, HD 4600 OC'dto 1500 Core
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)



bad simulation tbh

i7 has two times the L1 and L2 cache which you simulated but also twice the L3 (which is still 8MB in your picture)

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/501/Intel_Core_i3_i3-4340_vs_Intel_Core_i7_i7-4770K.html

---

Anyway we can't go by clock speed alone because we don't know high it can go on air/water. 10% faster with 10% lower clocks is good if it can clock as high with minimal effort (it would be the 20% gain AMD claims)
Edited by AlphaC - 1/8/14 at 5:56am
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