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[Puget Systems] AMD A10-7850K Performance Review - Page 7

post #61 of 286
Yeah,for laptops it looks extremely promising. If they release laptops with unlocked multipliers again, I'll replace my llano with kaveri.
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post #62 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSTe View Post

How about Llano?

No!! Stay away, I had one of those... Never again biggrin.gif
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post #63 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlDyer View Post

No!! Stay away, I had one of those... Never again biggrin.gif

Perhaps this is personal?
post #64 of 286
No Llano is really horrible for any kind of gaming. Serves well only as a media server
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post #65 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

This would all fine and dandy if R11.5 actually supported AVX but it doesn't. Even R15 doesn't.
http://www.hardwareluxx.com/index.php/news/software/benchmarks/28060-cinebench-r15-released.html

Cine 11.5 specifically uses SSE2 for all chips:
http://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=135978&curpostid=136051

If I could +REP for this post I would. Thank You Alatar for clearing this garbage up. I'm so sick of AMD apologetic defenders attitude about the "game" being unfair all the time. I want AMD to be successful, but not because the world played nice and fair and gave them a chance and a participation award, etc etc.



On a separate note for those following along who are concerned about power consumption... (As I was)

"Power consumption was close enough to the A10-6800K that it was essentially identical (a couple of watts from the wall). It makes sense since the A10-7850K is rated at 95W and the A10-6800K is rated at 100W. Under full load (Prime95) we were looking at about 135W from the wall with either APU." -Matt Bach @Puget


Regarding the legitimacy of these benchmarks pre NDA:
"As for why we haven't been slapped with an NDA notice yet, we received explicit permission from AMD that we could post this review since we are one of their select system builders that was given permission to do pre-sales." -Matt Bach @Puget

It is not in the best interest of Puget to perform benchmarks in a flawed manner, and historically, they have had very accurate, content rich analysis and reviews of hardware and software performance. As they are re-sellers of both AMD and Intel hardware, it is in their best interest to be extraordinarily forthcoming and honest about both platforms and how they perform in contrast to each-other because they seem to pride themselves on offering excellent hardware solutions to customer needs. Puget is the sort of computer company I would want to run or work for, as they seem to be curious minded and do the grunt-work for their customers by running lots of hardware tests.

I think people who "fluff off" and dismiss bench-marking and review sites with that typical "oh, but it's "that" review site, so it can't be any good," are forgetting the fact that the people who run those sites, are human, will make mistakes, but are often trying very hard to provide a fair and positive service. The folks who do this sort of work are computer enthusiasts just like us. In other-words, they love what they do, and are enthusiastic about it just like we are. I suspect that a lot of the "fluff" of dismissal is actually an ego response to defend ones own comfort level of knowledge on the subject. I have been visiting review sites for many years, and while there are bias's in the analysis of results that are apparent in the wording, (we all do this, even when we don't realize it), the results of the benchmarks are generally useful and as accurate as could reasonably be expected, less the rare error. Learning to read between the lines of a benchmark, and extrapolate or reveal the underlying bottleneck is, something that not all reviewers nail down particularly well, but that doesn't mean we can't.


Regards,
Eric
     
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post #66 of 286
There is no need to be upset.

Most of the people in these threads fall into two categories:

- AMD is s**t and everything they do is wrong and sucks, go Intel brocessor!
- These benchmarks are fake and this will definitely be much better and awesome

Just play with the trolls and have fun.
post #67 of 286
looks like AMD had them pull the review until the 14th (quick trip to the source is met with a small disclaimer). Im not sure whether makes the review more ligitimate or not, but we will find out on the 14th... Regardless, I think the biggest thing regarding Kaveri is the implimentation of HSA, in that even if performance suffers a little in regular computing tasks, but sees really nice gains in HSA enabled tasks (and games) it will go a long way to making a case for the 7850k over the 6800k, and make a good case for the usefullness in HSA computing.
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post #68 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

Bias bla bla
Eric

THG and their Inte/nVidia bias say hello to your big claims.
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post #69 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

If I could +REP for this post I would. Thank You Alatar for clearing this garbage up. I'm so sick of AMD apologetic defenders attitude about the "game" being unfair all the time. I want AMD to be successful, but not because the world played nice and fair and gave them a chance and a participation award, etc etc.


Similar posts are floating around alot but they essentially fail to deal with the core of the issue of compiler bias. Specifically:

http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=49#49

"When I started testing Intel's compiler several years ago, I soon found out that it had a biased CPU dispatcher. Back in January 2007 I complained to Intel about the unfair CPU dispatcher. I had a long correspondence with Intel engineers about the issue, where they kept denying the problem and I kept providing more evidence. They said that:

The CPU dispatch, coupled with optimizations, is designed to optimize performance across Intel and AMD processors to give the best results. This is clearly our goal and with one exception we believe we are there now. The one exception is that our 9.x compilers do not support SSE3 on AMD processors because of the timing of the release of AMD processors vs. our compiler (our compiler was developed before AMD supported SSE3). The future 10.x compilers, which enter beta this quarter and release around the middle of the year, will address this now that weve had time to tune and adjust to the new AMD processors.

Sounds nice, but the truth is that the CPU dispatcher didn't support SSE or SSE2 or any higher SSE in AMD processors and still doesn't today (Intel compiler version 11.1.054). I have later found out that others have made similar complaints to Intel and got similarly useless answers"




Anandtech has relevant info.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5058/amds-opteron-interlagos-6200/10

"We did not expect that the latest Opteron would outperform the previous one by a large margin. Cinebench is limited by SSE processing power. The ICC 11.0 compiler was the fastest compiler of its time for SSE/FP intensive software, even for the Opterons (up to 24% faster than the competing compilers), but it has no knowledge of newer architectures. And of course, the intel compiler does favor the Xeons."

So CB 11.5 is compiled using ICC 11.0. According to the very useful table above, the use of that particular version makes it so it takes advantage of instructions up to SSE4.2 for intel 64bit chips and SSE2 for non intel chips. In our case. vishera (or that bulldozer opteron from anand's review) has the particular instruction included but CB 11.5 opts to ignore this - this is bias. Yes, CB 11.5 is using SSE4.2 for intel and SSE2 for AMD,VIA etc.

As for the benchmarks, they seem legit to me-I only expect igpu numbers to get a small bump once a proper driver is out.
Edited by Kuivamaa - 1/8/14 at 10:07am
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post #70 of 286
I don't know what a THG is.

The world isn't a fair place. Do you expect AMD to write Mantle to favor Nvidia/Intel hardware? Nah, they will play dirty too, as they should.
     
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