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[TechReport] Seagate's 4TB "PORTABLE" hard drive requires only USB power - Page 3

post #21 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

It's not really a big issue since a backup is just that.

The concern is more if your primary, backup, backup, and/or archive all died at the same time.

I respectfully disagree, I consider lost backups, particularly if you have a series, to be a very big issue.

Sometimes you don't realize something is damaged/corrupted/lost until a ways down the road, having an extended period of backups is important to me.
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post #22 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post

I respectfully disagree, I consider lost backups, particularly if you have a series, to be a very big issue.

Sometimes you don't realize something is damaged/corrupted/lost until a ways down the road, having an extended period of backups is important to me.

If you need 4TB of USB-powered external backup, then you need 4TB of USB-powered external backup.

If you need 2TB of external backup, then you would be better off in terms of reliability/recovery with two separate 2TB external drives rather than a single RAID1 2TB external drive. (Plus it would probably be cheaper).
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post #23 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

If you need 4TB of USB-powered external backup, then you need 4TB of USB-powered external backup.

If you need 2TB of external backup, then you would be better off in terms of reliability/recovery with two separate 2TB external drives rather than a single RAID1 2TB external drive. (Plus it would probably be cheaper).

What he said.
     
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post #24 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

If you need 4TB of USB-powered external backup, then you need 4TB of USB-powered external backup.

If you need 2TB of external backup, then you would be better off in terms of reliability/recovery with two separate 2TB external drives rather than a single RAID1 2TB external drive. (Plus it would probably be cheaper).

Sure, and I understand that, but it is definitely worth noting that this 4TB drive statistically has twice the chance of failure over a single drive since it is separate two drives in a RAID 0. One drive goes, the whole thing goes.

I can't imagine why I'd want to perform the same backup twice, and carry two enclosures, instead of performing it once on one enclosure with redundant drives. Shouldn't be any less reliable and the convenience would be worth the extra cost to me, but to each his own I suppose.

EDIT:
I suppose I'm more sensitive to this only because I've had an external with a backup I needed fail right when I needed it. Literally in the middle of a restoration, the drive failed... Haven't trusted external drives for important backups since. frown.gif
Edited by SectorNine50 - 1/8/14 at 2:00pm
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post #25 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellis142 View Post

USB 3.0. It was about time someone took advantage of being able to draw MUCH more power than previous generations.

For those who didn't read the article (I'm very guilty of that...), it's two 2.5" drives sandwiched together in RAID 0. So it's fast AND affordable.

I didn't even need to read the article to guess! drunken.gif 2.5" non-server drives are the only 5v drives and they go up to 2TB. This is probably a pair of Spinpoint M9Ts or some derivative in an enclosure. I'm somewhat skeptical about using just one cable, but I only needed a single USB 2.0 to SATA adapter to clone my laptop's stock HDD to an aftermarket drive. USB 3.0 can deliver twice the power, so that's a very effective solution.
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post #26 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post

I can't imagine why I'd want to perform the same backup twice, and carry two enclosures, instead of performing it once on one enclosure with redundant drives. Shouldn't be any less reliable and the convenience would be worth the extra cost to me, but to each his own I suppose.

EDIT:
I suppose I'm more sensitive to this only because I've had an external with a backup I needed fail right when I needed it. Literally in the middle of a restoration, the drive failed... Haven't trusted external drives for important backups since. frown.gif

Better questions for 2TB of data.... why would you want to run RAID1 backups of it? You are pay a hefty premium for RAID1.

A single RAID1 is less safe than two independent copies. You can lose the unit, drop it in water, get stolen, RAID controller fries, ect..... Basically, RAID1 does not offer very much benefit for backups. RAID1 is for redundancy.... the ability to continue working in case of a HDD failure. Backups do not require redundancy. Good backup policy requires multiple backups.

If the backup is important, you should have at least two backups.....
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post #27 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post

Sure, and I understand that, but it is definitely worth noting that this 4TB drive statistically has twice the chance of failure over a single drive since it is separate two drives in a RAID 0. One drive goes, the whole thing goes.

I can't imagine why I'd want to perform the same backup twice, and carry two enclosures, instead of performing it once on one enclosure with redundant drives. Shouldn't be any less reliable and the convenience would be worth the extra cost to me, but to each his own I suppose.

EDIT:
I suppose I'm more sensitive to this only because I've had an external with a backup I needed fail right when I needed it. Literally in the middle of a restoration, the drive failed... Haven't trusted external drives for important backups since. frown.gif

Either I'm misunderstanding you or you are contradicting yourself. Having two backups on separate enclosures is far safer than having two backups in one enclosure. If an enclosure should fail, the backup on the HDD inside can also fail. If you had two backups on that HDD, you would lose them both. Two HDDs in RAID 0 are the same as one HDD.

Having more than one backup is wise since, as you experienced, the HDD the backup is on can fail. Having a second one will give more protection. A month or so back, my main data HDD in my computer went wonky and would drop out; I would have to reboot to get it back. Since I had added 28GB since the previous backup two days before and didn't want to have to repeat that work, I decided to clone the main data drive to one of the two local backup drives I have for that drive. The clone failed. If I hadn't had the second backup, would have lost much of my data (I had two more backups in a safe deposit box but they were a couple of weeks behind). Since the data I had added since the previous backup was confined to two folders, I copied them to another HDD, cloned the second backup back to the main data HDD, then copied the two folders back. If I hadn't had that second backup, I would have been S.O.L.

The beauty of this new drive is it doesn't require a separate PSU. It's a great idea (up to a point, two HDDs in RAID 0 are more susceptible to failure than a single HDD) but, being new technology, I would prefer to wait to see how it pans out. Besides, since I have a 3.5" hot swap bay in my computer, bare drives will run faster in there than even HDDs on USB 3.0 (it doesn't matter how fast the RAID 0 is, USB 3.0 still doesn't deliver the top end of its rated speed), they take a bit less room than an enclosure, and they don't require an enclosure.
     
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post #28 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Better questions for 2TB of data.... why would you want to run RAID1 backups of it? You are pay a hefty premium for RAID1.

A single RAID1 is less safe than two independent copies. You can lose the unit, drop it in water, get stolen, RAID controller fries, ect..... Basically, RAID1 does not offer very much benefit for backups. RAID1 is for redundancy.... the ability to continue working in case of a HDD failure. Backups do not require redundancy. Good backup policy requires multiple backups.

If the backup is important, you should have at least two backups.....

The sky could fall, the earth could end, anything could happen, yet the RAID 1 device would still offer more protection from drive failure than RAID 0.

All I was saying was that I wouldn't trust a RAID 0 external USB device for my backups because there is statistically twice the chance of data loss over a single drive. I stated that I thought it would be neat if this drive could switch to RAID 1 so that you could have statistically half the chance of data loss over a single drive, something I think would be worth the premium. You very clearly do not, I understand that.

To ease you qualms about my backups, I have a copy that goes to S3, and a copy that resides on my server. The failure I had happen was a long time ago, and a hard lesson learned.

EDIT:
Ah, I see the confusion. What I was speaking about in terms of the multiple externals was not about how I performed my backups, but how someone who was trying to just protect their laptop to an external wouldn't want to haul around two drives. I didn't really make that clear, I was speaking hypothetically.

Long story short, I don't trust externals very much as is, and a RAID 0 external makes me trust it even less. I'll bow out of this conversation and let it continue.
Edited by SectorNine50 - 1/8/14 at 2:48pm
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post #29 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Better questions for 2TB of data.... why would you want to run RAID1 backups of it? You are pay a hefty premium for RAID1. A single RAID1 is less safe than two independent copies. You can lose the unit, drop it in water, get stolen, RAID controller fries, ect. Basically, RAID1 does not offer very much benefit for backups. RAID1 is for redundancy.... the ability to continue working in case of a HDD failure....

You are comparing apples and kumquats. RAID 1 isn't what is being used here, RAID 0 is. In this case, RAID 0 is needed to get 4TB from 2.5" HDDs that can run on the 5v off a USB 3.0 buss. But, what you are saying about RAID 1 for backups is dead on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

...Backups do not require redundancy. Good backup policy requires multiple backups.

If the backup is important, you should have at least two backups.....

Absolutely! thumb.gif
     
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post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Better questions for 2TB of data.... why would you want to run RAID1 backups of it? You are pay a hefty premium for RAID1.

A single RAID1 is less safe than two independent copies. You can lose the unit, drop it in water, get stolen, RAID controller fries, ect..... Basically, RAID1 does not offer very much benefit for backups. RAID1 is for redundancy.... the ability to continue working in case of a HDD failure. Backups do not require redundancy. Good backup policy requires multiple backups.

If the backup is important, you should have at least two backups.....

The sky could fall, the earth could end, anything could happen, yet the RAID 1 device would still offer more protection from drive failure than RAID 0.

All I was saying was that I wouldn't trust a RAID 0 external USB device for my backups because there is statistically twice the chance of data loss over a single drive. I stated that I thought it would be neat if this drive could switch to RAID 1 so that you could have statistically half the chance of data loss over a single drive, something I think would be worth the premium. You very clearly do not, I understand that.

To ease you qualms about my backups, I have a copy that goes to S3, and a copy that resides on my server. The failure I had happen was a long time ago, and a hard lesson learned.

EDIT:
Ah, I see the confusion. What I was speaking about in terms of the multiple externals was not about how I performed my backups, but how someone who was trying to just protect their laptop to an external wouldn't want to haul around two drives. I didn't really make that clear, I was speaking hypothetically.

Long story short, I don't trust externals very much as is, and a RAID 0 external makes me trust it even less. I'll bow out of this conversation and let it continue.

I think what Duckieho is getting at is that having a RAID 1 config in one enclosure offers you no more security as in reality, if you were to damage the whole enclosure with a RAID 1 config (Say it gets smashed or drowned) then both the HDD's will be broken and the redundancy RAID 1 offers would be null and void. It is always better to have multiple enclosures as should one get destroyed you have another complete backup elsewhere. As stated RAID 1 in reality is to minimize downtime more so than to ensure safe backup policy.
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