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[TR] Nvidia responds to AMD's ''free sync'' demo - Page 14  

post #131 of 321
Who in their right mind wouldn't want VBlank to be adopted as an open standard on all monitors? Closed proprietary standards should be shot-down whenever they appear since their bad for the market and the consumer. Unless you have a vested interest in Nvidia, you all should be more vocal about this becoming a standard and wanting it to succeed.
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post #132 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenFaux View Post

Who in their right mind wouldn't want VBlank to be adopted as an open standard on all monitors? Closed proprietary standards should be shot-down whenever they appear since their bad for the market and the consumer. Unless you have a vested interest in Nvidia, you all should be more vocal about this becoming a standard and wanting it to succeed.

A lot of closed and proprietary things in this world eventually turned into open standards. Everything has a starting point....
    
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post #133 of 321
Comments by Dave Baumann at Beyond3d on Freesync:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ams
That is a straw man argument. At the end of the day, it is not even close to "free" as AMD is trying to [falsely] portray. And who do you think will end up paying the research, design, and implementation cost for this new technology (scaler asic with variable refresh capability)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Baumann
You're making an assumption that the ability isn't already there in from the hardware perspective.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1819648&postcount=66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ams
And you're making the assumption that the ability is already there and ready on a broad scale from a hardware perspective. AMD makes it sound like this is a trivial and quick thing to implement across the board, when the reality is likely to be far different than that. And like I said earlier, most people will need to purchase a new monitor for this (and possibly a new GPU too), so it is not really "free" at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Baumann
I'm not making any assumptions, I'm very aware of the situation.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1819678&postcount=70
post #134 of 321
Why is it so hard for people to follow the rules here?
post #135 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

If this is the case, it would help FreeSync becoming a standard a lot! It would remove the step of people having to purchase new GPUs with DP 1.3 on them.
Wait, now you get it. This is the point the other poster made and and then I commented on saying the same thing. You kept saying it as if it had to be in DP1.3 to ever be in a monitor.
post #136 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenFaux View Post

It's probably easy to integrate into any DP connectors and possibly others based on the fact the AMD chips already have the capability. The point of having introduced as a standard on DP 1.3 is that in order for a panel to be certified DP 1.3 they have to include the additional features.

VBLANK is not a required feature for DP 1.3. The DP 1.3 final specification will only include it but not mandate it.
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post #137 of 321
Well, I typed out a long response to the other thread that was locked, so I'll put it here.




It will work ... IF this, and IF that, and IF that, and IF that ... ALL happen. And since AMD doesn't actually control the Display Port standard -OR- the design and manufacture the ASIC needed ... they are BIG "IFs" to be overcome.

I swear, that AMD fans are really digging hard on this. Why else would they keep pushing this PR stunt to try to steal the thunder from G-Sync, which IS moving forward and manufacturers are ALREADY making monitors.

The Display Port 1.3 standard isn't controlled my AMD and isn't even FINALIZED. But more importantly, it is just the interconnection between the video card and the monitor ... basicallly the cable between the two. It doesn't magically do everything that is needed. That is why a custom ASIC has to be designed and put into the monitor, which AMD isn't making and relying on the monitor manufacturers to develop and put in. VERY VERY eDP connected panels (ie on laptops can do this ... hence why the demo was done on a laptop ... and NONE of the desktop panels can do this).

Also, since NONE of the AMD or nVidia cards support DP1.3 (because it isn't a finalized standard) ... and DP1.3 isn't the same as eDP ... you will STILL need to buy new hardware. So the whole "FREE Synce" is, just as I said, a PR stunt.



Please merge this thread with all the other "FreeSync" threads. This has been covered already.
post #138 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syan48306 View Post

Unfortunately, they're not flopping. Actually it's very clever. They're stealing Nvidia's thunder when they really have nothing more than a proof a concept and the they're giving consumers A LOT of false hope that this may be implemented in the same way G-Sync will be in the future. Clever marketing IMO, just dirty and underhanded though.
i think you and many others dont understand FreeSynch.

AMD use the notebook not for casual, in the desktop monitors the situation is different, Nvidia use extra hardware because the actual ASIC scaler used in the modern display not support this tecnology.
AMD required an ASIC scaler whit Variable Vblank tecnology and DP 1.3, both not exist now, and Nvidia dont wait this and dont want submit to the only VESA rules.
post #139 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5entinel View Post

Why is it so hard for people to follow the rules here?


Because I am in here, and I am the local nut job and evil resident of OCN, causing a raucous

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujsetia View Post

Comments by Dave Baumann at Beyond3d on Freesync:

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1819648&postcount=66

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1819678&postcount=70

Which brings back up the issue of the DP 1.2 using Vblank and working with a DP 1.3 device to support FreeSync.....can it work that way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Wait, now you get it. This is the point the other poster made and and then I commented on saying the same thing. You kept saying it as if it had to be in DP1.3 to ever be in a monitor.

As of right now it does look like it has to be in DP 1.3 for it to function, his statement was just a semi-educated guess on the matter, which is about all we are doing right now. As of my last righting it was a recognized possibility, it always has been. That possibility being DP 1.2 devices could work for FreeSync...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

VBLANK is not a required feature for DP 1.3. The DP 1.3 final specification will only include it but not mandate it.

My, and others, understanding is the final DP 1.3 specification doesn't even have to have it, and it is just one of the options on the table to include in it. Which if it doesn't make it, pretty much kills Freesync before it gets out of the gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Well, I typed out a long response to the other thread that was locked, so I'll put it here.




It will work ... IF this, and IF that, and IF that, and IF that ... ALL happen. And since AMD doesn't actually control the Display Port standard -OR- the design and manufacture the ASIC needed ... they are BIG "IFs" to be overcome.

I swear, that AMD fans are really digging hard on this. Why else would they keep pushing this PR stunt to try to steal the thunder from G-Sync, which IS moving forward and manufacturers are ALREADY making monitors.

The Display Port 1.3 standard isn't controlled my AMD and isn't even FINALIZED. But more importantly, it is just the interconnection between the video card and the monitor ... basicallly the cable between the two. It doesn't magically do everything that is needed. That is why a custom ASIC has to be designed and put into the monitor, which AMD isn't making and relying on the monitor manufacturers to develop and put in. VERY VERY eDP connected panels (ie on laptops can do this ... hence why the demo was done on a laptop ... and NONE of the desktop panels can do this).

Also, since NONE of the AMD or nVidia cards support DP1.3 (because it isn't a finalized standard) ... and DP1.3 isn't the same as eDP ... you will STILL need to buy new hardware. So the whole "FREE Synce" is, just as I said, a PR stunt.



Please merge this thread with all the other "FreeSync" threads. This has been covered already.

Pretty much the point I was trying to get at yesterday, and I know you are simply repeating yourself as well Knuckle.

The only big question on the issue of new hardware is if DP 1.2 devices will work with DP 1.3 for this purpose! We know the cards in our rigs now can utilize VBlank, but the DP 1.2 specification on the interface can not, it is a bottleneck of a sorts.

So, if we connect a DP 1.3 device and cable, will it still work? Even though, technically, the card has a DP 1.2 interface sitting between the card and display itself.

NO ONE HAS BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION!

I spent hours online last night looking for a direct answer, and the most direct answer I found was "No". That devices that support DP 1.3 and its features aren't expected to market until end of 2014 or early 2015, because the specification isn't even final.

If this is true, every person sitting with a computer right now would need to purchase a new GPU with DP 1.3 on it to take advantage of FreeSync, even if display manufacturers got on board and started cranking out displays with everything needed to use it.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 1/9/14 at 10:05am
    
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post #140 of 321
DP 1.2 or DP 1.3. It doesn't even matter. DP 1.3 simply ensures that the cable and GPU are both variable refresh rate aware. Desktop monitors do not have eDP and therefore do not have a control module that is refresh rate aware. The variable refresh control module that is used in monitors is not part of the VESA specification, and is completely optional. There is no REQUIREMENT for monitors to have a variable refresh rate control board. Every monitor on the market right now, sans g-sync, is designed to operate at 60, 120, or 144hz. None of them are designed for variable refresh, and none have control boards for variable refresh. This is the key requirement for free-sync or g-ysnc.

That's why nvidia is adding the FPGA module. To make monitors that do not have a variable refresh control board, and essentially adding that. There are no monitors on the market with variable refresh rate control boards. There are no monitors in development that have variable refresh rate control boards. This is what AMD's sleaze ball marketing didn't tell you. They require a control board just like nvidia does. But did they tell you that? Of course not. They want the live or die for AMD nutjobs to think they have something actually coming down the pike. When they have nothing more than proof of concept.

This was all explained at PCPer.com yesterday in their news. Displayport 1.3 is one requirement, as per AMD. The other requirement is a variable refresh control board. eDP panels are only used in laptops and eDP panels have this - desktop panels DO NOT have variable refresh control boards. So, essentially, AMD has to go out and make this happen. THEY have to convince panel makers to add a variable refresh control board, just like nvidia already has done. Will AMD do that? I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT. And it won't be free. But their sleazy marketing scumbags will sure lead you to believe it's free. I've been there done that with 7970CF. Don't listen to what AMD marketing tells you. IT's always based on half truths. I still have 5870CF paperweights here that have tearing and microstutter in eyefinity. Does AMD care that this issue existed for 3+ years? Of course not. But they sure love to fool you with their sleazy marketing to take your money. I'm so glad I sold my 7970 crossfire cards. I'm done listening to a word AMD says.

I suggest everyone take AMD's word with extreme caution. I say this after dealing with numerous bugs with 7970CF and listening to their lies in the past. In fact, 7970CF has had tearing and microstutter in eyefinity for over two years. Again, does AMD care? Heck no. They sure will take your money though.
Edited by xoleras - 1/9/14 at 10:31am
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