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post #141 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

DP 1.2 or DP 1.3. It doesn't even matter. DP 1.3 simply ensures that the cable and GPU are both variable refresh rate aware. Desktop monitors do not have eDP and therefore do not have a control module that is refresh rate aware. The variable refresh control module that is used in monitors is not part of the VESA specification, and is completely optional. There is no REQUIREMENT for monitors to have a variable refresh rate control board. Every monitor on the market right now, sans g-sync, is designed to operate at 60, 120, or 144hz. None of them are designed for variable refresh, and none have control boards for variable refresh. This is the key requirement for free-sync or g-ysnc.

That's why nvidia is adding the FPGA module. To make monitors that do not have a variable refresh control board, and essentially adding that. There are no monitors on the market with variable refresh rate control boards. There are no monitors in development that have variable refresh rate control boards. This is what AMD's sleaze ball marketing didn't tell you. They require a control board just like nvidia does. But did they tell you that? Of course not. They want the live or die for AMD nutjobs to think they have something actually coming down the pike. When they have nothing more than proof of concept.

This was all explained at PCPer.com yesterday in their news. Displayport 1.3 is one requirement, as per AMD. The other requirement is a variable refresh control board. eDP panels are only used in laptops and eDP panels have this - desktop panels DO NOT have variable refresh control boards. So, essentially, AMD has to go out and make this happen. THEY have to convince panel makers to add a variable refresh control board, just like nvidia already has done. Will AMD do that? I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT. And it won't be free. But their sleazy marketing scumbags will sure lead you to believe it's free. I've been there done that with 7970CF. Don't listen to what AMD marketing tells you. IT's always based on half truths. I still have 5870CF paperweights here that have tearing and microstutter in eyefinity. Does AMD care that this issue existed for 3+ years? Of course not. But they sure love to fool you with their sleazy marketing to take your money. I'm so glad I sold my 7970 crossfire cards. I'm done listening to a word AMD says.

I suggest everyone take AMD's word with extreme caution. I say this after dealing with numerous bugs with 7970CF and listening to their lies in the past. In fact, 7970CF has had tearing and microstutter in eyefinity for over two years. Again, does AMD care? Heck no. They sure will take your money though.

i did crossfire my 7950 and my 7970 and had no issues. i only played C3, C2 and BF3, though and only one monitor. on the otherhand, i 've been reading microstutter with members using sli. hmmm. guess they have not really fixed microstutter in sli, then? hardware fixed might be in place but software maybe the one causing it.

edit: serious question . . will g-sync fix that or bad driver spoil it?
Edited by rdr09 - 1/9/14 at 10:49am
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post #142 of 321
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Originally Posted by rdr09 View Post

i did crossfire my 7950 and my 7970 and had no issues. i only played C3, C2 and BF3, though and only one monitor. on the otherhand, i 've been reading microstutter with members using sli. hmmm

Well it's a good thing that numerous websites have tested frametimes and frame latency extensively. It has been fixed on the AMD side for DX11 single screen only. It has not been fixed for DX9 or eyefinity, and has not been fixed for 3+ years dating back to the 5870 CF.









A corporation that lets bugs like this exist for 3 years deserves your money? IS that what you think? Keep telling yourself that. Free-sync is going to be another failed promise just like many other failed promises from AMD's marketing.

Hilarious fact. I bought 5870 CF at launch. As everyone else did, I had tearing and microstutter in surround. AMD told me the solution was to get a MST hub. This was in 2010. Guess what. MST hubs didn't hit the market until 2013. LOL. And even then it was in europe only by Club 3D. So apparently to fix AMD's crap I had to get a MST hub, only it wasn't on the market for 3 years after AMD told me to do that.

That's the kind of garbage that just makes you sick of a company. I still bought a 6970 and 7970CF afterwards though. Why? I'm stupid I guess. But I know better now. Dont' trust AMD's marketing. That's the bottom line. Never again AMD, never again.
Edited by xoleras - 1/9/14 at 10:58am
post #143 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Well it's a good thing that numerous websites have tested frametimes and frame latency extensively. It has been fixed on the AMD side for DX11 single screen only. It has not been fixed for DX9 or eyefinity, and has not been fixed for 3+ years dating back to the 5870 CF.









A corporation that lets bugs like this exist for 3 years deserves your money? IS that what you think? Keep telling yourself that. Free-sync is going to be another failed promise just like many other failed promises from AMD's marketing.

Hilarious fact. I bought 5870 CF at launch. As everyone else did, I had tearing and microstutter in surround. AMD told me the solution was to get a MST hub. This was in 2010. Guess what. MST hubs didn't hit the market until 2013. LOL. And even then it was in europe only by Club 3D. So apparently to fix AMD's crap I had to get a MST hub, only it wasn't on the market for 3 years after AMD told me to do that.

That's the kind of garbage that just makes you sick of a company. I still bought a 6970 and 7970CF afterwards though. Why? I'm stupid I guess. But I know better now. Dont' trust AMD's marketing. That's the bottom line. Never again AMD, never again.


Mate, your entitled to your opinion, and clearly your experience with AMD has left you scarred, but not everyones experience is the same as yours, repeating yourself tirelessly isn't going to change those opinions. Live and let live. This thread is about g-sync and free sync, those charts are more than off topic and irrelevant, crossfire now out performs sli in dx11 games. Regardless this thread isn't about that anyway.
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post #144 of 321
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Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Well it's a good thing that numerous websites have tested frametimes and frame latency extensively. It has been fixed on the AMD side for DX11 single screen only. It has not been fixed for DX9 or eyefinity, and has not been fixed for 3+ years dating back to the 5870 CF.

Yup, until AMD fixes that very issue for me ... ie frame latency in Crossfire for DirectX 9 games (as well as flat out not gaining any performance in Crossfire setups while running games in "Windowed Mode"), I will not use AMD cards for my main/gaming rig. I may use them for specialty rigs like my HTPC, but that's about it.

AMD really does need to stop with all the game, be it PR stunts like "FreeSync" or even going as far back as to the "We were first to 1GHz" then "We were first to 2GHz", then when Intel beat them to 3GHz and 4GHz, AMD suddenly changed their tune and said "GHz doesn't matter", and FOCUS on fixing existing issues that have been around for years.
post #145 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Yup, until AMD fixes that very issue for me ... ie frame latency in Crossfire for DirectX 9 games (as well as flat out not gaining any performance in Crossfire setups while running games in "Windowed Mode"), I will not use AMD cards for my main/gaming rig. I may use them for specialty rigs like my HTPC, but that's about it.

AMD really does need to stop with all the game, be it PR stunts like "FreeSync" or even going as far back as to the "We were first to 1GHz" then "We were first to 2GHz", then when Intel beat them to 3GHz and 4GHz, AMD suddenly changed their tune and said "GHz doesn't matter", and FOCUS on fixing existing issues that have been around for years.

They're a company that's smaller than both nVidia and Intel, yet they have both CPU and GPU lines. Their resources are far more limited than Intel and nVidia.

And based on my experience with my SLI setup, nVidia doesn't have any performance increases with running games in Windowed mode either. So calling out AMD on an issue that's present in both camps...

Also, as I said before, marketing and PR are necessary for a business.
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post #146 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Yup, until AMD fixes that very issue for me ... ie frame latency in Crossfire for DirectX 9 games (as well as flat out not gaining any performance in Crossfire setups while running games in "Windowed Mode"), I will not use AMD cards for my main/gaming rig. I may use them for specialty rigs like my HTPC, but that's about it.

AMD really does need to stop with all the game, be it PR stunts like "FreeSync" or even going as far back as to the "We were first to 1GHz" then "We were first to 2GHz", then when Intel beat them to 3GHz and 4GHz, AMD suddenly changed their tune and said "GHz doesn't matter", and FOCUS on fixing existing issues that have been around for years.

They're a company that's smaller than both nVidia and Intel, yet they have both CPU and GPU lines. Their resources are far more limited than Intel and nVidia.

And based on my experience with my SLI setup, nVidia doesn't have any performance increases with running games in Windowed mode either. So calling out AMD on an issue that's present in both camps...

Also, as I said before, marketing and PR are necessary for a business.

SLI now works in Window mode, with limited success of course and only in supported profiles (officially).

nVidia ~ 8,100 Employees
AMD ~ 10,340 Employees
Intel ~ 104,000 Employees

AMD is not an underdog, people really need to stop with this line of logic.

They also used to be 12,000 Employees back in 2011 before about a 10% lay off.
AMD

Just because they make multiple products CPUs, APUs, and GPUs, doesn't mean they are "underdogs", nor does being "broker" than the other two due to bad business choices in the past, make them underdogs. AMD has had (and still does have) massive resources, that many were previously mismanaged in the past. Whoever told you they don't have as many resources is lying to you on a very large scale.

Bulldozer is probably the worst mismanaged product which was due to the design essentially being too "automated" by computers.

Intel is just a freak and in a league on its own, much like Google.

AMDs particular marketing has been borderline lying in the past, in addition to that, some of their Reps also directly lied to us. Even OCN's AMD rep (whom no longer comes here) lied to us regarding upcoming performance of products. AMDs hype-lying-bs-marketing should insult AMDs fans more than anyone else.
Edited by RagingCain - 1/9/14 at 12:00pm
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post #147 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

They're a company that's smaller than both nVidia and Intel, yet they have both CPU and GPU lines. Their resources are far more limited than Intel and nVidia.
.[/B]

First of all, you're being disingenuous or are misinformed with your sli/windowed mode statement. It works fine in SLI and has for a LONG Time. It doesn't work on the AMD side though, at least it didn't in 2012 with 7970CF. or 5870CF. Not sure if AMD fixed that. But based on their track record, PROBABLY NOT. Anyway, I don't buy GPUs or CPUs based on pity. I don't buy AMD or nvidia based on pity. I dont' care if they're smaller. I want the better product. I don't buy the inferior product just because I feel SORRY for AMD. Boo hoo. Pity me. rolleyes.gif Make no mistake. AMD is a publicly traded company trying hard to get your money. Don't think for a second that they're anything less than a business out to get your money. The pity card is fun, but ridiculous. Nobody buys worse products based on pity unless they're stupid.

Like I outlined in my previous posts, I had way too many issues with AMD over the prior years. From 5870 CF to 7970 CF. I Know better now than to listen to their marketing BS. They promised so many things over the years only to not deliver. They promised eyefinity-CF fixes. Only that problem has existed 3+ years. STILL EXISTS on 280x and 79xx or prior cards. But their marketing told me, always, their fixes were imminent. Guess what. They lied to me numerous times. Every time I had an issue, I submitted bug reports to AMD. Guess how many of those issues got fixed? Well you see CF+ eyefinity/dx9 is STILL not fixed. 3 years later. What about the other issues? They fixed Witcher 2 crashing in crossfire. AFTER FIVE MONTHS. They told me to get a MST hub with my 5870s in 2010. Only MST hubs didn't exist until 2013. Yawn. I could go on and on with this forever.

I don't care if AMD is smaller, although I don't think AMD is smaller than nvidia. The point is. I don't buy products based on pity. I buy products based on what's the better product. I buy products from companies that DONT LIE to me. I buy products from companies that DELIVER. Not ones that have their marketing doing the talking.

I'll tell you what. Free-sync is marketing BS. Number one, free-sync is clearly a shot at nvidia's g-sync. What's hilarious, though, is that free-sync requires an add-on control module for monitors just like g-sync does. AMD's marketing lying to you. Yet again. Yet someone is going to tell me that THIS COMPANY deserves your money. Excuse me while I roll my eyes. You go right ahead and buy into their marketing bullcrap. Some of has learned to never trust their marketing. Everything they tell you is based on half truth with very few exceptions. I'll also add. G-sync wasn't announced until nvidia had monitor partners on board. They had a price ready. They had control boards ready. They had a plan to market. Timeframe to market. Compare this to free-sync. What does AMD have? What monitor partners do they have? Where is their control board that is variable refresh aware? What is their timeframe to market? You see where i'm going with this? AMD == marketing fluff. AMD has nothing with free-sync. It's a marketing stunt to take attention away from g-sync for a few weeks. Nothing more nothing less.
Edited by xoleras - 1/9/14 at 11:58am
post #148 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

They're a company that's smaller than both nVidia and Intel, yet they have both CPU and GPU lines. Their resources are far more limited than Intel and nVidia.
.[/B]

First of all, you're being disingenuous or are misinformed with your sli/windowed mode statement. It works fine in SLI and has for a LONG Time. It doesn't work on the AMD side though, at least it didn't in 2012 with 7970CF. or 5870CF. Not sure if AMD fixed that. But based on their track record, PROBABLY NOT. Anyway, I don't buy GPUs or CPUs based on pity. I don't buy AMD or nvidia based on pity. I dont' care if they're smaller. I want the better product. I don't buy the inferior product just because I feel SORRY for AMD. Boo hoo. Pity me. rolleyes.gif Make no mistake. AMD is a publicly traded company trying hard to get your money. Don't think for a second that they're anything less than a business out to get your money. The pity card is fun, but ridiculous. Nobody buys worse products based on pity unless they're stupid.

Like I outlined in my previous posts, I had way too many issues with AMD over the prior years. From 5870 CF to 7970 CF. I Know better now than to listen to their marketing BS. They promised so many things over the years only to not deliver. They promised eyefinity-CF fixes. Only that problem has existed 3+ years. STILL EXISTS on 280x and 79xx or prior cards. But their marketing told me, always, their fixes were imminent. Guess what. They lied to me numerous times. Every time I had an issue, I submitted bug reports to AMD. Guess how many of those issues got fixed? Well you see CF+ eyefinity/dx9 is STILL not fixed. 3 years later. What about the other issues? They fixed Witcher 2 crashing in crossfire. AFTER FIVE MONTHS. They told me to get a MST hub with my 5870s in 2010. Only MST hubs didn't exist until 2013. Yawn. I could go on and on with this forever.

I don't care if AMD is smaller, although I don't think AMD is smaller than nvidia. The point is. I don't buy products based on pity. I buy products based on what's the better product. I buy products from companies that DONT LIE to me. I buy products from companies that DELIVER. Not ones that have their marketing doing the talking.

I'll tell you what. Free-sync is marketing BS. Number one, free-sync is clearly a shot at nvidia's g-sync. What's hilarious, though, is that free-sync requires an add-on control module for monitors just like g-sync does. AMD's marketing lying to you. Yet again. Yet someone is going to tell me that THIS COMPANY deserves your money. Excuse me while I roll my eyes. You go right ahead and buy into their marketing bullcrap. Some of has learned to never trust their marketing. Everything they tell you is based on half truth with very few exceptions. I'll also add. G-sync wasn't announced until nvidia had monitor partners on board. They had a price ready. They had control boards ready. They had a plan to market. Timeframe to market. Compare this to free-sync. What does AMD have? What monitor partners do they have? Where is their control board that is variable refresh aware? What is their timeframe to market? You see where i'm going with this? AMD == marketing fluff. AMD has nothing with free-sync. It's a marketing stunt to take attention away from g-sync for a few weeks. Nothing more nothing less.

Sigh, AMD is larger, by over 25%, than nVidia, when it comes to employees.
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post #149 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Sigh, AMD is larger, by nearly 25%, than nVidia, when it comes to employees.

I see. I wasn't aware of this. My point stands though. Some people act like AMD deserves money even when their marketing are lying scumbags and they have outstanding software bugs for 2-3 years at a time.

Even if AMD were smaller. That is ridiculous. I buy products from companies I can trust. Companies that deliver. Companies that don't lie to me. Therefore I have learned, after owning several gens of AMD GPUs - I should add I gave AMD thousands of my hard earned dollars - I learned to never trust AMD. I'll never buy into their hype and marketing nonsense again. Free-sync is another one of their marketing/hype plays.
post #150 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Well it's a good thing that numerous websites have tested frametimes and frame latency extensively. It has been fixed on the AMD side for DX11 single screen only. It has not been fixed for DX9 or eyefinity, and has not been fixed for 3+ years dating back to the 5870 CF.









A corporation that lets bugs like this exist for 3 years deserves your money? IS that what you think? Keep telling yourself that. Free-sync is going to be another failed promise just like many other failed promises from AMD's marketing.

Hilarious fact. I bought 5870 CF at launch. As everyone else did, I had tearing and microstutter in surround. AMD told me the solution was to get a MST hub. This was in 2010. Guess what. MST hubs didn't hit the market until 2013. LOL. And even then it was in europe only by Club 3D. So apparently to fix AMD's crap I had to get a MST hub, only it wasn't on the market for 3 years after AMD told me to do that.

That's the kind of garbage that just makes you sick of a company. I still bought a 6970 and 7970CF afterwards though. Why? I'm stupid I guess. But I know better now. Dont' trust AMD's marketing. That's the bottom line. Never again AMD, never again.

guess the answer is - no. you prolly never used sli, so you are prolly the wrong person to ask. thanks, anyways.
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