Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [TR] Nvidia responds to AMD's ''free sync'' demo
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[TR] Nvidia responds to AMD's ''free sync'' demo - Page 24  

post #231 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Correct. And this is beside the fact that variable refresh control boards are entirely optional - like it or not, variable refresh is only used by gamers and the vast majority of monitors will still be designed for 60hz operation. So my point here? The variable refresh control board that AMD requires to be installed in monitors is 100% optional by monitor vendors. It is not going to be part of the displayport 1.3 specification, because it is by no means required by every monitor. It is a gamer feature. DP 1.3 isn't even finalized, and we don't know when it will be finalized. On that note, when it finalized, is AMD releasing new GPUs for DP 1.3? Since they themselves stated that free-sync requires DP 1.3?

And again, I should remind, that AMD's marketing free-sync as free. It turns out that AMD requires a variable refresh control board in monitors just like nvidia does. I find that fact to be hilarious, it's such an outright lie on AMD's part to suggest that free-sync is "free". Variable refresh control board isn't free, new monitor isn't free, like i've stated before.

Most hardcore gamers concerned with input lag already have 120hz or higher monitors as it is. Their technology allows us to buy and choose the specific 120hz monitor we like. Unlike nvidias which will most likely be locked down to say 2 or 3 choices at most since it is proprietary, and also will leave you stuck with only the most expensive options in the category due to having all the added hardware required to make Gsync work.


Free sync > Gsync no biased involve. AMD's concept is more universal and more forgiving than NVIDIA's proprietary design
Code Red
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k AsRock z68 Professional Gen 3 Sapphire HD 6950 dirt3 x2 Mushkin ddr3 1866 8 gigs 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Mushkin Chronos 120gb, Seagate 1tb ASUS DVD RW Windows 7 Ultimate Asus VG236HE 120hertz 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Tenkeyless with cherry browns Corsair AX 850watt Antec DF-85 Zowie Ec2 gloss white finish 
Mouse Pad
Fnatic qck+ 
  hide details  
Code Red
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k AsRock z68 Professional Gen 3 Sapphire HD 6950 dirt3 x2 Mushkin ddr3 1866 8 gigs 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Mushkin Chronos 120gb, Seagate 1tb ASUS DVD RW Windows 7 Ultimate Asus VG236HE 120hertz 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Tenkeyless with cherry browns Corsair AX 850watt Antec DF-85 Zowie Ec2 gloss white finish 
Mouse Pad
Fnatic qck+ 
  hide details  
post #232 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by catharsis View Post

Most hardcore gamers concerned with input lag already have 120hz or higher monitors as it is. Their technology allows us to buy and choose the specific 120hz monitor we like. Unlike nvidias which will most likely be locked down to say 2 or 3 choices at most since it is proprietary, and also will leave you stuck with only the most expensive options in the category due to having all the added hardware required to make Gsync work.


Free sync > Gsync no biased involve. AMD's concept is more universal and more forgiving than NVIDIA's proprietary design

Yeah, good luck with your free-sync monitor that won't be available until 2015 and will require a new monitor with DP 1.3 and a new GPU with 1.3. Have fun with that.

I apologize if that seems abrasive, but that's probably what will happen given AMD's history - they promised so many things for eyefinity and HD3D users only to fail consumers over and over and over. Freesync will be no different. Again, I apologize for the abrasiveness if it seems that way. But if you think AMD is going to give you an alternative soon, that just won't happen.
post #233 of 321
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

I dont know why you still debate.You dont want to be a standard feature in the next years or something?

The implied advice is that we don't have to buy a Gsync monitor now and lock in our GPU choice for the next few years because Freesync will be available SOON (Blizzard TM).

It should be obvious Freesync will not come out in 2014 at all because the time it takes 1.3 to be made available after being ratified is several months and it will be ratified in the fall.

So it should be available in 2015 but there is the nagging problem that DP 1.3's primary reason to exist are 8k and 3D 4k tvs. Considering how long it take new TVs to be released after CES we will be lucky to see 2015 displays by summer and from past experience they will suck in either price (because it is a limited quantity quality display) or quality (because it was made with the cheapest quality in all other areas just to fulfill the 8k/ 3d 4k bullet point)

So it won't be until Spring 2016 when Freesync is widely available.
Edited by mutantmagnet - 1/10/14 at 6:35am
post #234 of 321
I hope G-sync is wildly successful. If it isn't, than I doubt we will ever see free-sync. You got to believe if money can be made, monitor manufacturers WILL adpot a standard to help them sell more monitors.

Personally, I just don't think there is that much of a demand to make it worthwhile outside of gamers (and even than, it's only a portion of them). This isn't a knock on G-sync it sounds like great tech, just don't think there is that much money to be made on it.
post #235 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Yeah, good luck with your free-sync monitor that won't be available until 2015 and will require a new monitor with DP 1.3 and a new GPU with 1.3. Have fun with that.

I apologize if that seems abrasive, but that's probably what will happen given AMD's history - they promised so many things for eyefinity and HD3D users only to fail consumers over and over and over. Freesync will be no different. Again, I apologize for the abrasiveness if it seems that way. But if you think AMD is going to give you an alternative soon, that just won't happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchmoSalt View Post

What is the point of these technologies that nVidia/ATI have created? How are they better than VSync? Are they just more efficient performance wise or do they actually improve image quality? Are they just a gimmick to get people to buy a new nVidia/ATI card and a new display?

There is no probably my friend, main stream consumer products that support DP 1.3 aren't expected until the end of 2014 to early 2015. Now imagine how far out specific/specialized products for a niche market (Gamers) will be? I would be surprised if we seen FreeSync and displays that support it in 2015 at all. I mean, look how long it has taken for us just to get 120Hz 1440P from a major manufacturer!

Without trying to state what has been stated already.....

This is a niche specification, in a niche market, which makes up a very small percent of the total market. It doesn't matter if we like it or not, we come last when it comes to setting STANDARDS for the ENTIRE industry! We are simply begging for scrap at this point, if we honestly believe we are going to create an entirely new standard for the ENTIRE industry. Which, please understand, is different than Nvidia going to a select number of manufacturers with THEIR product that they paid for and designed, working to get it in a specific product of those companies.

Basically, Nvidia used their resources and money to develop and carry the product to a very specific niche market; that is difficult as it is. AMD is wanting an industry to adopt a standard, at the industry expense, that only a handful of the users will actually benefit from. That is a huge pill to swallow! You are trying to get companies that calculate their costs to the penny, and to the 10th of seconds in production time, to spend money on something a VERY small number of their potential market might see benefit of!

It comes down to the good old "Cost vs Benefit". I am not saying they shouldn't try, new standards that benefit the market are great, but this will not be an overnight change. So, people should feel comfortable supporting G-Sync and the fact it is here, while supporting AMD on making a long term change for the entire industry! Remember, a lot of standards started as proprietary works.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 1/10/14 at 5:09pm
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 5820K AsRock Extreme6 X99 Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti Windforce OC 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB - HDD Speed Edtition Samsung SM951 512 GB - I still hate Samsung!  Noctua NHD14 Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Achieva Shimian QH270-Lite Overlord Computer Tempest X27OC  Acer Predator XB270HU Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-1250 Fractal Design R5 Razer Naga Razer Goliathus Alpha 
AudioAudio
AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition Creative Sound Blaster Zx 
  hide details  
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 5820K AsRock Extreme6 X99 Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti Windforce OC 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB - HDD Speed Edtition Samsung SM951 512 GB - I still hate Samsung!  Noctua NHD14 Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Achieva Shimian QH270-Lite Overlord Computer Tempest X27OC  Acer Predator XB270HU Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-1250 Fractal Design R5 Razer Naga Razer Goliathus Alpha 
AudioAudio
AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition Creative Sound Blaster Zx 
  hide details  
post #236 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

It comes down to the good old "Cost vs Benefit". I am not saying they shouldn't try, new standards that benefit the market are great, but this will not be an overnight change. So, people should feel comfortable supporting G-Sync and the fact it is here, while supporting AMD on making a long term change for the entire industry! Remember, a lot of standards started as proprietary works.

Dude. I could *totally* respect that if AMD had been forthcoming with something like this. If they had said, "Hey we have something cool coming down the pike but it is only a proof of concept right now. Expect products in Q4". That would be totally fine. Instead, AMD took a direct shot at nvidia by naming it "free-sync". Fact of the matter is, free-sync isn't free since it will require the monitor to have a control board that is variable refresh aware just like g-sync. New monitor and control board aren't free. And "free-sync" is a direct shot at nvidia. You know this. Furthermore, AMD made a community web blog titled "doing the work for everyone" which was basically an inflammatory shot at nvidia.

Look at how these two companies treated the situation. Nvidia didn't say a word until g-sync was done. Had monitor partners on board. Had a release time frame. Had a control module developed, An upgrade program and price. I could go on. AMD, meanwhile, has something on paper but it's a constant guessing game. Is DP 1.3 required by the GPU and monitor? Some say yes some say no. WE DONT KNOW. When is free-sync being released? AMD doesn't know. AMD doesn't have any monitor manufacturers on board.

Instead, AMD demo'ed this as a direct marketing stunt against nvidia, even with the name taking a shot at them, despite the fact that AMD has GOT NOTHING right now. Do you see how stupid this situation is? If AMD had been forthcoming about this being proof of concept only , and not going on a negative PR spin by taking jabs at nvidia, that would be totally cool. Instead you have AMD marketing being outright deceptive. I found the fact that their rep when interviewed by techreport suggested that nvidia didn't have variable refresh capability in their GPUs. That is a lie. They also went on to question why nvidia needed additional hardware while they claimed that AMD didn't. We now know that is a lie. AMD's VP of graphics, Koduri, clarified later to state that monitors using free sync WILL REQUIRE a variable refresh control board.

Now. Do you see the problem here? AMD's marketing turned something that COULD be cool into something that is absolutely retarded. If AMD had stated that this was a proof of concept, without the tasteless jabs at nvidia, and been forthcoming and NOT LYING about the details, that would be great. WHO DOESN'T want more GPU competition on the market? I sure do. I want a g-sync alternative. But I don't want AMD to do it this way. They hyped you all up on something that won't be here in 2014 in all likelihood, and then even took some jabs at nvidia in the process. You know what? I like nvidia's products but I hate nvidia the corporation. I hate that they charge too much for their gear. But I have never seen nvidia do something as stupid as what AMD did with free-sync; nvidia didn't say a WORD about g-sync until it was done with a plan to market. Wish I could say the same for AMD with free-sync. I bet it won't even happen in 2014.
Edited by xoleras - 1/10/14 at 5:49pm
post #237 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Dude. I could *totally* respect that if AMD had been forthcoming with something like this. If they had said, "Hey we have something cool coming down the pike but it is only a proof of concept right now. Expect products in Q4". That would be totally fine. Instead, AMD took a direct shot at nvidia by naming it "free-sync". Fact of the matter is, free-sync isn't free since it will require the monitor to have a control board that is variable refresh aware just like g-sync. New monitor and control board aren't free. And "free-sync" is a direct shot at nvidia. You know this. Furthermore, AMD made a community web blog titled "doing the work for everyone" which was basically an inflammatory shot at nvidia.

Look at how these two companies treated the situation. Nvidia didn't say a word until g-sync was done. Had monitor partners on board. Had a release time frame. Had a control module developed, An upgrade program and price. I could go on. AMD, meanwhile, has something on paper but it's a constant guessing game. Is DP 1.3 required by the GPU and monitor? Some say yes some say no. WE DONT KNOW. When is free-sync being released? AMD doesn't know. AMD doesn't have any monitor manufacturers on board.

Instead, AMD demo'ed this as a direct marketing stunt against nvidia, even with the name taking a shot at them, despite the fact that AMD has GOT NOTHING right now. Do you see how stupid this situation is? If AMD had been forthcoming about this being proof of concept only , and not going on a negative PR spin by taking jabs at nvidia, that would be totally cool. Instead you have AMD marketing being outright deceptive. I found the fact that their rep when interviewed by techreport suggested that nvidia didn't have variable refresh capability in their GPUs. That is a lie. They also went on to question why nvidia needed additional hard while they claimed that AMD didn't. We now know that is a lie. AMD's VP of graphics, Koduri, clarified later to state that monitors using free sync WILL REQUIRE a variable refresh control board.

Now. Do you see the problem here? AMD's marketing turned something that COULD be cool into something that is absolutely retarded. If AMD had stated that this was a proof of concept, without the tasteless jabs at nvidia, and been forthcoming and NOT LYING about the details, that would be great. WHO DOESN'T want more GPU competition on the market? I sure do. I want a g-sync alternative. But I don't want AMD to do it this way. They hyped you all up on something that won't be here in 2014 in all likelihood, and then even took some jabs at nvidia in the process. You know what? I like nvidia's products but I hate nvidia the corporation. I hate that they charge too much for their gear. But I have never seen nvidia do something as stupid as what AMD did with free-sync; nvidia didn't say a WORD about g-sync until it was done with a plan to market. Wish I could say the same for AMD with free-sync. I bet it won't even happen in 2014.

Oh, I am not denying that AMD took a direct, and somewhat dirty, shot at Nvidia and G-Sync. Their move was to steal thunder from G-Sync, that is plain as day! Honestly the engineers over at AMD should be having a conversation with their marketing department.

It is just another example of men/woman in lab coats trying to do work, and men/woman in suits blabbing their mouths off.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 5820K AsRock Extreme6 X99 Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti Windforce OC 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB - HDD Speed Edtition Samsung SM951 512 GB - I still hate Samsung!  Noctua NHD14 Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Achieva Shimian QH270-Lite Overlord Computer Tempest X27OC  Acer Predator XB270HU Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-1250 Fractal Design R5 Razer Naga Razer Goliathus Alpha 
AudioAudio
AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition Creative Sound Blaster Zx 
  hide details  
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 5820K AsRock Extreme6 X99 Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti Windforce OC 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB - HDD Speed Edtition Samsung SM951 512 GB - I still hate Samsung!  Noctua NHD14 Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Achieva Shimian QH270-Lite Overlord Computer Tempest X27OC  Acer Predator XB270HU Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-1250 Fractal Design R5 Razer Naga Razer Goliathus Alpha 
AudioAudio
AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition Creative Sound Blaster Zx 
  hide details  
post #238 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Oh, I am not denying that AMD took a direct, and somewhat dirty, shot at Nvidia and G-Sync. Their move was to steal thunder from G-Sync, that is plain as day! Honestly the engineers over at AMD should be having a conversation with their marketing department.

It is just another example of men/woman in lab coats trying to do work, and men/woman in suits blabbing their mouths off.

You know, i'd agree that probably is what happened. In a huge corporation, different departments take things in wildly different directions. AMD's marketing probably saw this as the big chance to take a shot at nvidia, but didn't supply all the unknown variables about free-sync.

That doesn't make what they did okay (in my opinion), but I can respect AMD's engineers. Their hardware is generally good. The 290 and 290X Hawaii chips are definitely top notch (I've been really impressed by aftermarket 290/X cards, ignoring the inflated US costs...), so it's not an engineer issue. It's the other areas of AMD that really get me annoyed sometimes.
post #239 of 321
AMD has been doing this sort of garbage since the days of "Breaking the 1GHz barrier" with CPU's.

They were all high and mighty when they beat Intel to 1GHz. They rubed it in their face. They did it again when they were the first to 2GHz. When Intel beat them to 3GHz, what was AMD's response? "GHz doesn't matter, it's all about cores, not speed." Way to move the goal post when you are losing.

AMD is nothing more than a marketing hype machine anymore. They do this garbage with "FreeSync". They got nothing but proof of concept and they go and pull a PR stunt like this.

They make WILD and totally unsubstantiated claims about 45% more FPS with Mantle in BF4 than with DirectX. No proof.

They swear up and down for over a year that there is no issue with Crossfire and frame latency. They slander PCP for showing it. And when they finally can't hide from facts anymore, they "fix it" and act like they didn't lie for over a year about their well known problem.

Their "fix" for frame latency isn't. It still doesn't work for DirectX. It doesn't work with multiple monitors. It doesn't work on single monitors with resolutions abouve 2560x1600. It's been 9 months since the "fixed it" and nearly 2 years since the problem was pointed out.

They flat out lied on their white paper about the TDP with their Phenom CPUs.

The list of lies goes on and on.

I used to LOVE ATI, and honestly, I wept the day that AMD bought them out. AMD has polluted ATI with lies and deceptions.

"FreeSync" is just another example of that. An example where some people are either so clueless or so partisan they don't even see it.
post #240 of 321
Well you can look at it another way and say Nvidia stayed quiet about g-sync because they knew about the plans for vblank support being standardized with dp 1.3. and being done for free, and rushed through a dodgy deal to get it done as quickly as possible to have 12 months of sole profits by making it a paid for item. I suppose it depends on how you feel about g-sync whether or not this is a good thing for you. Personally i won't be getting g-sync as i'm not a massive fan of proprietary , and g sync just doesn't sound that great to me, i would be giving up to much to go back to a nvidia gpu, but to people who already own nvidia and plan on getting a $800 tn panel for something that should be free, then i guess you can call it a "privilege for the early access". Personally i would call it "being given the middle finger by nvidia" but hey that's just me. If you live in a bubble like xoleras and knucklehead and think nvidia are saints and saviours for our souls and think they wouldn't do a dodgy deal like this maybe look into the deal nvidia cut with origin, and the things they paid origin to say.
Edited by mboner1 - 1/11/14 at 6:16am
I'm back baby!!!
(23 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4670k Asus sabertooth z97 mark 2 sapphire tri x r9 290 corsair ripjaws x 1600 (16gb) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
samsung evo 120gb ssd seagate 1tb hdd 1tb external hdd seagate 2tb hdd 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
samsung cd drive coolermaster vortex plus windows 7 ultimate Sony W800B (50 inch) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair vengeance k65 Corsair rm1000 Fractal Design node 605 Razer Naga left hand edition 
Mouse PadAudioOtherOther
Razer kabuto creative gigaworks t40 series ii logitech g930 wireless headset Logitech wireless touchpad 
Other
Vantec 310S3 Hard drive enclosure x2 
  hide details  
I'm back baby!!!
(23 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4670k Asus sabertooth z97 mark 2 sapphire tri x r9 290 corsair ripjaws x 1600 (16gb) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
samsung evo 120gb ssd seagate 1tb hdd 1tb external hdd seagate 2tb hdd 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
samsung cd drive coolermaster vortex plus windows 7 ultimate Sony W800B (50 inch) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair vengeance k65 Corsair rm1000 Fractal Design node 605 Razer Naga left hand edition 
Mouse PadAudioOtherOther
Razer kabuto creative gigaworks t40 series ii logitech g930 wireless headset Logitech wireless touchpad 
Other
Vantec 310S3 Hard drive enclosure x2 
  hide details  
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
This thread is locked  
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [TR] Nvidia responds to AMD's ''free sync'' demo