Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [TR] Nvidia responds to AMD's ''free sync'' demo
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[TR] Nvidia responds to AMD's ''free sync'' demo - Page 28  

post #271 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

But it is an extra cost over what it would be if the tech wasn't proprietary. This doesn't mean monitor manufacturers wont charge the same for the monitors with or without the proprietary component, but it doesn't change the fact that that component has a cost added.

The added component is going to have a cost whether it is proprietary or not - you either pay for a G-sync module or you pay for a Vblank module. The G-sync module may or may not be more expensive, but it doesn't have to be just because it is proprietary. Nvidia could license the technology for free to the monitor manufacturers (and they probably are to spur adoption), making it proprietary just means AMD/Intel can't use it without permission. CUDA is proprietary, but Nvidia doesn't charge royalties to use it.
post #272 of 321
I like the idea of free sync because I don't want to be in a situation where I upgrade my GFX card to say AMD or nVidia and lose the benefits that G-Sync and Free sync offer.

For me monitors are a long term investment, while a GPU I'm likely to upgrade every second year.

So AMD, nVidia, let me, the consumer win! biggrin.gif
post #273 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

The added component is going to have a cost whether it is proprietary or not - you either pay for a G-sync module or you pay for a Vblank module. The G-sync module may or may not be more expensive, but it doesn't have to be just because it is proprietary. Nvidia could license the technology for free to the monitor manufacturers (and they probably are to spur adoption), making it proprietary just means AMD/Intel can't use it without permission. CUDA is proprietary, but Nvidia doesn't charge royalties to use it.

From what I understand Vblank is already included in some monitors and AMD Graphic Cards hardware. In that case all it needs firmware upgrade for the monitor and drivers support. Anyway there is no way the cost for freesync can be anywhere close to the cost for G-sync which requires additional hardware manufactured by Nvidia to be installed..
post #274 of 321
so not exist any VGA and any monitors with support DP 1.3 ?
this is a fail, Nvidia is just ready !
post #275 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz68 View Post

From what I understand Vblank is already included in some monitors and AMD Graphic Cards hardware. In that case all it needs firmware upgrade for the monitor and drivers support. Anyway there is no way the cost for freesync can be anywhere close to the cost for G-sync which requires additional hardware manufactured by Nvidia to be installed..

Vblank is not included in any existing desktop monitors. It may be possible to retro-fit it through a firmware upgrade, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Quote:
However, Petersen quickly pointed out an important detail about AMD's "free sync" demo: it was conducted on laptop systems. Laptops, he explained, have a different display architecture than desktops, with a more direct interface between the GPU and the LCD panel, generally based on standards like LVDS or eDP (embedded DisplayPort). Desktop monitors use other interfaces, like HDMI and DisplayPort, and typically have a scaler chip situated in the path between the GPU and the panel. As a result, a feature like variable refresh is nearly impossible to implement on a desktop monitor as things now stand.

That, Petersen explained, is why Nvidia decided to create its G-Sync module, which replaces the scaler ASIC with logic of Nvidia's own creation. To his knowledge, no scaler ASIC with variable refresh capability exists—and if it did, he said, "we would know." Nvidia's intent in building the G-Sync module was to enable this capability and thus to nudge the industry in the right direction.

Edited by Forceman - 1/12/14 at 2:06am
post #276 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Vblank is not included in any existing desktop monitors. It may be possible to retro-fit it through a firmware upgrade, but I wouldn't bet on it.
So you rather bet on what Peterson said, I say lets wait and see.
post #277 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz68 View Post

So you rather bet on what Peterson said, I say lets wait and see.

Yes, I'll take his word over yours. If it was as easy as flipping a firmware switch on a desktop monitor, don't you think that's something AMD would have mentioned? Instead of what they did say, which is that they currently have no plans to bring it to market?
Quote:
AMD isn’t ready to productize this nor does it have a public go to market strategy,

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014
Edited by Forceman - 1/12/14 at 2:17am
post #278 of 321
The only purpose free-sync has right now is to get people thinking that AMD has some sort of an answer to g-sync and that they have similar tech available. So in forums, facebook pages, youtube comments etc. people can call g-sync buyers suckers and tell people to go AMD so they can wait for free-sync.

When in reality

-Free-sync has no schedule for coming to any desktop system
-You're definitely going to need a new monitor with added costs for including the feature
-You might need a new GPU
-All of this might be years away, especially if you look at the adoption rate of previous display port iterations.
-In order to get the same animation smoothness (notice how AMD didn't even claim anything about input lag) as g-sync you're going to be left with forcing triple buffering through AMD's drivers.

And with g-sync:

-the module does everything for you, no need for extra vsync methods from the drivers
-you're guaranteed no added input lag
-You can get it possibly years in advance
-you pay a bit more

Still sounds a lot like 3d-vision vs. 3DHD to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Vblank is not included in any existing desktop monitors. It may be possible to retro-fit it through a firmware upgrade, but I wouldn't bet on it.

If that quote is accurate then a firmware update can't really do anything. If AMD didn't specifically say that it can definitely be done and Nvidia says that it can't be done then there's about a 99% chance that it can't be done.

Lots of "maybe" and "possibly" from AMD and a straight no from Nvidia translates to a pretty strong no.
Edited by Alatar - 1/12/14 at 2:25am
 
Benching
(17 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[i7 5960X @ 4.8GHz] [Rampage V Extreme] [Titan 1400MHz (1500MHz bench)] [Various] 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
[250GB 840EVO +2x SpinpointF3 1TB RAID0] [LD PC-V2 SS Phase Change] [XSPC X2O 750 pump/res] [Monsta 360 full copper + EK XT 360 + XT 240] 
MonitorPowerCaseAudio
[Crossover 27Q LED-P 1440p+ASUS 1200p+LG 1080p] [Corsair AX1200] [Dimastech Easy v3.0] [Sennheiser HD558s] 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
FX 8320, FX 8350, Phenom II x2 555BE i7 3930K, i7 860, i7 4770K, 68x Celeron D CVF, commando, 2x RIVE, Z87X-OC Asus 4870x2, Sapphire 4870 
GraphicsGraphicsGraphicsGraphics
2x 5870, 5850, 5830, 5770 2x 3870x2, 3870 GTX Titan, GTX 480, GTX 590 GTX 285, GTX 260, 4x 9800GT, 8800GTX 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
4x4GB vengeance, 2x4GB predatorX, 2x1GB OCZ DDR2 Intel X25-M 80GB LD PC-V2 SS Phase Change OCN Marksman 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
2x old tek slims (GPU) Various watercooling stuff win7, winxp AX1200 
Case
test bench / cardboard box 
  hide details  
 
Benching
(17 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[i7 5960X @ 4.8GHz] [Rampage V Extreme] [Titan 1400MHz (1500MHz bench)] [Various] 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
[250GB 840EVO +2x SpinpointF3 1TB RAID0] [LD PC-V2 SS Phase Change] [XSPC X2O 750 pump/res] [Monsta 360 full copper + EK XT 360 + XT 240] 
MonitorPowerCaseAudio
[Crossover 27Q LED-P 1440p+ASUS 1200p+LG 1080p] [Corsair AX1200] [Dimastech Easy v3.0] [Sennheiser HD558s] 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
FX 8320, FX 8350, Phenom II x2 555BE i7 3930K, i7 860, i7 4770K, 68x Celeron D CVF, commando, 2x RIVE, Z87X-OC Asus 4870x2, Sapphire 4870 
GraphicsGraphicsGraphicsGraphics
2x 5870, 5850, 5830, 5770 2x 3870x2, 3870 GTX Titan, GTX 480, GTX 590 GTX 285, GTX 260, 4x 9800GT, 8800GTX 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
4x4GB vengeance, 2x4GB predatorX, 2x1GB OCZ DDR2 Intel X25-M 80GB LD PC-V2 SS Phase Change OCN Marksman 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
2x old tek slims (GPU) Various watercooling stuff win7, winxp AX1200 
Case
test bench / cardboard box 
  hide details  
post #279 of 321
How would end-users update the firmware on a desktop monitor?
post #280 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz68 View Post

So you rather bet on what Peterson said, I say lets wait and see.

LOL.

That's what AMD's lies boil down to. Let's wait and see. Wait for this driver. Wait for this fix. WAIT FOR THIS WAIT FOR THAT..

I had 5870CF and 7970CF. 5870CF? Tearing in CF eyefinity? Get a MST hub to fix it. AMD told me this in 2010. Only MST hubs didn't appear on the market until 2013 and only in EUROPE at that, i'm in the US. Then with 7970 CF. Why did i buy it? I'm an idiot. But oh wait. Tearing and microstutter bug still exists in crossfire eyefinity. Has it been fixed? NO. IT STILL HASN'T BEEN FIXED.

LET'S WAIT AND SEE. Websites reported on the crossfire eyefinity tear/stuttering issue in 2012. AMD didn't even acknowledge the bug until websites pestered them in 2012. Then they said, wait and see, wait for our driver. In 2012. Guess what. Bug still exists. AMD admitted to the bug. Wait and see guys! LOL. That's AMD for you. Their marketing suckered you in hook line and sinker. I could go on with AMD issues I had constantly when I was an AMD GPU user, only I learned that AMD is full of lies and half truths.

"Free and open standards". Is that what AMD's marketing is saying about free-sync? I heard this somewhere before. Where? HD3D. "Hey guys, here's our 3D API, go forth and use it"! Only, AMD abandoned HD3D and gave the driver rights to Tri-Def. TRI-DEF CHARGES FOR THE HD3D DRIVER NOW. AMD? Left anyone who bought an HD3D monitor out to try. They abandoned it. "Free and open standards". It all sounds so good on paper for AMD's marketing. If only their marketing weren't liars. Meanwhile, 3D Vision is still supported. Nvidia still updates it in their driver, doesn't charge for 3d vision drivers (tri-def does), and they actively add games to 3d vision. This is a stark contrast to the samsung HD3D monitor users, whom AMD gave the middle finger to.

By the way. You can't upgrade monitor firmware - you can't upgrade a monitor control board through firmware, and even if you COULD in some alternate fantasy land, monitor firmware is NOT user upgradeable. You have to RMA the monitor, and assume that the monitor manufacturer wants to bother with doing AMD's dirty work for them (YEAH RIGHT). Meanwhile, AMD keeps throwing out vague half-truths to give AMD users hope. "Maybe" you can upgrade the firmware. That isn't true. Monitor firmware isn't user upgrade-able, and doesn't magically turn the control module into a variable refresh aware one. You keep buying into their marketing BS though.

You keep waiting and seeing. ME? I'm done waiting and seeing. I'm done listening to AMD's lies. The facts are this:

1) AMD's freesync demo only worked because their laptops used the eDP interface. eDP is not used in desktop monitors.
2) AMD's freesync requires displayport 1.3 according to several websites Their GPUs do not support DP 1.3. DP 1.3 is not even finalized yet, and probably won't be until this summer or fall of 2014. (edit: this isn't confirmed, but AMD was completely vague on whether DP 1.3 is required or not. I suspect that AMD doesn't even know or want to tell us)
3) AMD's freesync requires a controller in the monitor that is variable refresh aware. This is NO DIFFERENT THAN g-sync which has a module for the SAME REASON. AMD's marketing lied and told you it was free.
4) Based on #3: new monitor is not free. new controller is not free. This ignores the fact that DP 1.3 monitors will not be on market for all of 2014 in all likelihood.
5) Freesync is marketing type designed to take attention away from g-sync.
6) Lastly, g-sync was not announced until it was DONE. nvidia has monitor partners READY. G-sync monitors are ready. The release time frame is set. Nvidia has a plan to get it to market.
7) Meanwhile, AMD's lying, I mean, marketing department has zero monitor partners. They don't have a release time frame. They have no plan to market.

Do you see a difference here? Free-sync is marketing nonsense. Even the name alone, free-sync, is a spin of "g-sync". Marketing fluff. You keep waiting and seeing. I'm 99.9% sure free-sync won't happen in 2014, based on AMD's prior history of never delivering on promises. You can vilify nvidia all you want based on their pricing, but G-sync wasn't announced until it was done and ready. I don't particularly like nvidia the corporation, because they do charge a lot of money. But? They deliver on promises. They didn't tell us about g-sync until they had a plan. And on that note, g-sync is DONE RIGHT NOW. Free-sync? We have more questions than answers. It will not happen in 2014. This I can almost guarantee you.
Edited by xoleras - 1/12/14 at 4:56am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
This thread is locked  
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [TR] Nvidia responds to AMD's ''free sync'' demo