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[Silverstone] Silverstone FT05 | CES 2014 - Page 48

post #471 of 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverStone View Post

Yes, 160mm is our recommended maximum depth for PSU if you still want to keep the drive cage in place.

Im also a bit worried regarding the graphic card and the heatsink orientation recommendation, as I plan to install a 290X Lightning in that case and the heatpipes doesn't seem to run vertical. Will it affect the temps in a noticeably negative way ?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1457490/silverstone-silverstone-ft05-ces-2014/370#post_22914335

"To better answer: look for cards with heatsinks whose fins and heat pipes run vertical when looking at the card from above with the i/o on the left. TwinFrozr and DirectCuII both meet this standard, the WindForce doesn't. It is only a liability because, in a card like the WindForce, the heat pipes will have a harder time wicking heat than they otherwise would due to gravity."
Edited by Falconetti - 10/21/14 at 3:12am
post #472 of 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconetti View Post

Im also a bit worried regarding the graphic card and the heatsink orientation recommendation, as I plan to install a 290X Lightning in that case and the heatpipes doesn't seem to run vertical. Will it affect the temps in a noticeably negative way ?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1457490/silverstone-silverstone-ft05-ces-2014/370#post_22914335

"To better answer: look for cards with heatsinks whose fins and heat pipes run vertical when looking at the card from above with the i/o on the left. TwinFrozr and DirectCuII both meet this standard, the WindForce doesn't. It is only a liability because, in a card like the WindForce, the heat pipes will have a harder time wicking heat than they otherwise would due to gravity."
I'll tell you that's bollocks. If you know anything about heatpipes they are not affected by gravity if not heatsinks won't be effective working sideways (as we all do for clearance)
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post #473 of 674
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Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

I'll tell you that's bollocks. If you know anything about heatpipes they are not affected by gravity if not heatsinks won't be effective working sideways (as we all do for clearance)

Ok, thanks!
post #474 of 674
Just a black box, lol.
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post #475 of 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

I'll tell you that's bollocks. If you know anything about heatpipes they are not affected by gravity if not heatsinks won't be effective working sideways (as we all do for clearance)
Actually no, you're wrong, it's science, but I do appreciate your conjecture and unwillingness to contest. While heatpipes have advanced a little bit since the 60's (check the patents yo), they're still bound to gravity and, as pcper, hardwarecanucks, benchmarkreviews, computerbase, etc have demonstrated, modern GPU heatpipes that run vertically in a 90* orientation perform better when the case is turned on it's side and they are allowed to run horizontally, regardless of the "convection" (bottom to top airflow) these cases are designed around.

That said, again, the difference will be pretty negligible, a few degrees at most.
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post #476 of 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

Actually no, you're wrong, it's science, but I do appreciate your conjecture and unwillingness to contest. While heatpipes have advanced a little bit since the 60's (check the patents yo), they're still bound to gravity and, as pcper, hardwarecanucks, benchmarkreviews, computerbase, etc have demonstrated, modern GPU heatpipes that run vertically in a 90* orientation perform better when the case is turned on it's side and they are allowed to run horizontally, regardless of the "convection" (bottom to top airflow) these cases are designed around.

That said, again, the difference will be pretty negligible, a few degrees at most.
I beg to differ. It would be bound to gravity IF it wasn't pressurized and the gas they create is heavier than atmosphere when they boil (that's how heatpipes work -_-) and yes they are pressurized that's why they can boil the liquid in them easily they aren't "liquid pipes" wink.gif and also because they are not relative to atmosphere (they aren't since they are sealed) it will work normally.

Also, accelero extreme III wink.gif

Also, cases with mobo trays horizontally perform more or less exactly the same with their CPU heatsinks as those that are vertical.
Edited by DaveLT - 10/21/14 at 2:47pm
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post #477 of 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

I beg to differ. It would be bound to gravity IF it wasn't pressurized and the gas they create is heavier than atmosphere when they boil (that's how heatpipes work -_-) and yes they are pressurized that's why they can boil the liquid in them easily they aren't "liquid pipes" wink.gif and also because they are not relative to atmosphere (they aren't since they are sealed) it will work normally.
You are correct in that heat pipes have wicks and are not thermosyphons (liquid pipes). That said, you're forgetting pressure and entrainment limits of heatpipes, which directly correlates to gravity in the case of these GPUs as the "bottom end" of the heatpipe is where entrainment would occur - capillary pressure will only get you so far (also known as the "capillary limit").

I can assure you that none of our GPU vendors are spending the hundreds (thousands?) of dollars per card it would require to replace heatpipes with variable conductance heat pipes (what you're suggesting is used). Do note that the type of heatpipe you're referring to is pretty much only used in space, where there's no gravity, IE they had to make a special kind of heatpipe to work in environments where there's no gravity/pressure because, as you are simultaneously suggesting and denying, heatpipes rely on pressure/gravity to work.

Most (all?) consumer PC components use single-phase circuit heatpipes which, like all things terrestrial, operate against gravity.

Then, you don't need fancy math to figure this out:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermacore Industrial View Post

Can heat pipes work against gravity? Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Yes, this occurs whenever the evaporator is located above the condenser. In these applications the working fluid must be pumped against gravity back to the evaporator. This occurs through wick structures that pump working fluid through capillary pressure developed in the porous wick. The finer the pore radius of a wick structure, the higher against gravity the heat pipe can operate. (Nanoscale wicks are available.)

Not all types of passive heat transfer can operate against gravity. A thermosyphon is similar to a heat pipe but has no wick structure and will only operate gravity-aided.

IE the limiting factor on how well heatpipes can work against gravity is the limit to how well we can produce them - there will always be resistance/a limitation to how effectively they can resist gravity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

Also, accelero extreme III wink.gif
Check out this amazing article by expreview that offers an in-depth explanation as well as tests. Note the 20* difference for the Accelero Extreme rolleyes.gif

Or how about DirectCuII, whose orientation is significantly better than the Accelero - 4* lower when horizontal on a 760, and that's a heatsink with heatpipes that are better suited to run vertically than most.

Here's a user who moved from a P182 to an FT02 with an Accelero Extreme III. Went from 80* to 105*.
Round-up of similar: http://www.overclock.net/t/900251/gpu-coolers-that-actually-work-in-90-rotation-ft02-rv02
Similar story: http://www.overclock.net/t/762539/kraken-build-log-viperware-systems/20
I'm not even sure why I'm bothering at this point but good chat! thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

Also, cases with mobo trays horizontally perform more or less exactly the same with their CPU heatsinks as those that are vertical.
Sure, but most CPU heatsinks are vertical rolleyes.gif This only applies in the situation SilverStone outlined above (horizontal heatsinks that blow air at the motherboard rather than with the case's airflow). Tower heatsinks (like the ones all of us use) don't have this problem - when a PC is horizontal the heat pipes are above the heat source, when a PC is vertical the pipes are horizontal, either all on the same plane or with minimal travel to horizontal.

Then, you could just take SilverStone's word for it: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
There are two main types of heat pipes used in popular aftermarket coolers, they are groove and powder. Groove heat pipes are very susceptible to gravity while powder heat pipes are less so. To achieve best performance in either heat pipe technology, they need to be placed horizontally or have the heat source side located below the other end of the heat pipe. We recommend choosing and installing components with heat pipes carefully by taking into consideration of the following examples:

Motherboard:

The orientation of an enthusiast motherboard in a normal ATX case


The orientation of an enthusiast motherboard in the FT02

As the illustrations above show, most enthusiast motherboards with heat pipes will work fine in the FT02, the heat source is located below other parts of the heat pipe.
CPU cooler:
Horizontal style cooler

Good orientation Good orientation Bad orientation

Many CPU coolers can be rotated when installing on motherboards, the illustration here shows a SilverStone NT06-E

VGA cooler

The illustration here shows a VGA cooler that will not work well in the FT02 because the heat source side (touching the GPU) ends up being located higher than the other end.

Edits: Clarity
Late edit: How'd I forget - you can't have pressure without gravity doh.gif
Edited by claes - 10/22/14 at 12:09pm
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post #478 of 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

I beg to differ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post


I'm not even sure why I'm bothering at this point but good chat! thumb.gif


jerry.gif
post #479 of 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconetti View Post

Yes, please. Im located in Sweden!

Finally managed to get Maingear to quote me a price to ship a Maingear Shift chassis to Europe. Hold on to your hat. Shipping is $327.40 USD. In fairness it comes with a free sherpa who polishes the case 24hrs a day and a very small mountain goat who lives inside each case that spins the fans until cool down in the event of a power outage. Or not. Mental pricing and thats not even dealing with customs. frown.gif

I think I'll have to get something in the interim to build my rig and wait for a...never going to happen...ebay seller to list one.
post #480 of 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juris View Post

Finally managed to get Maingear to quote me a price to ship a Maingear Shift chassis to Europe. Hold on to your hat. Shipping is $327.40 USD. In fairness it comes with a free sherpa who polishes the case 24hrs a day and a very small mountain goat who lives inside each case that spins the fans until cool down in the event of a power outage. Or not. Mental pricing and thats not even dealing with customs. frown.gif

I think I'll have to get something in the interim to build my rig and wait for a...never going to happen...ebay seller to list one.

I think I'll pass on it, even though it's tempting having your own Sherpa and mountain goat inside your case wink.gif

Thanks for your help!
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