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PSA About the Kingston V300 SSD(Probable foul play by Kingston) - Page 5

post #41 of 165
As I recall slower bench marks showed up in May if not before. Last year. The NAND comments appeared more than 6 months later. So I assume al Kingston V300 are now asynchronous NAND, no way to tell. I think this is affecting inventories as sale prices, and recently rebates have appeared.
I own two HYPER 3K SSDs, I was considering purchase of a V300 going by reviews. I am glad sale prices never coinsided with money in pocket. I DO NOT LIKE this being unable to tell the difference.
post #42 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by brasslad View Post

As I recall slower bench marks showed up in May if not before. Last year. The NAND comments appeared more than 6 months later. So I assume al Kingston V300 are now asynchronous NAND, no way to tell. I think this is affecting inventories as sale prices, and recently rebates have appeared.
I own two HYPER 3K SSDs, I was considering purchase of a V300 going by reviews. I am glad sale prices never coinsided with money in pocket. I DO NOT LIKE this being unable to tell the difference.

Neither me, I only realised after I bought it. For a laptop or secondary rig I wouldn't mind it if it was like 15+ dollars cheaper.
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Minimi Dried off!
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post #43 of 165
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsec View Post

I agree with everything you said.

There is no way to tell officially if the V300 is a 'S' or 'A' type, that is unknown to the purchaser. We know from user's experience that the Taiwan manufactured version with firmware 5.0.6 uses asynchronous NAND, and the China manufactured version with firmware 5.0.5 uses synchronous NAND. But that could change again in the future. I wonder if the V300S version is still being manufactured? .

The place where the drive was manufactured doesn't seem to have any bearing on what type of NAND it has. I've had dozens of people send me their benchmarks for the drive and plenty of the synchronous and asynchronous drives were made in both China and Taiwan.

The way the numbering scheme works is The v505A, v505B, v505C, v507, and v520 are all synchronous. The v506 and v521 are both asynchronous.

As for whether synchronous drives are still manufactured I would wager yes. The v505C and v507 seem to have just recently surfaced and both are synchronous.
post #44 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by okp11 View Post

The place where the drive was manufactured doesn't seem to have any bearing on what type of NAND it has. I've had dozens of people send me their benchmarks for the drive and plenty of the synchronous and asynchronous drives were made in both China and Taiwan.

The way the numbering scheme works is The v505A, v505B, v505C, v507, and v520 are all synchronous. The v506 and v521 are both asynchronous.

As for whether synchronous drives are still manufactured I would wager yes. The v505C and v507 seem to have just recently surfaced and both are synchronous.

I was quoting the earlier information based on user posts about where the async NAND versions of the V300 came from, or could be identified as async by the manufacturing location. I should have known it was not that simple, either China or Taiwan. That myth needed to be cleared up, great information.

The numbers you listed are the firmware versions that come with the V300 from the factory, or something else? They seem to be firmware versions.

The correlation between the firmware version and type of NAND used in a V300 is interesting, but must be just coincidental. It seems the firmware version number corresponds to a specific production run of V300s, if the async versions are isolated to only 506 and 521.

The latest firmware update for the V300 has this table in its firmware update procedure guide:



So several firmware versions were used but all were not available to the public. We also see that the firmware is not different between async and sync versions.

Once the firmware is updated to 525, you can't tell what type you have, except by the benchmark results.

Given all the production runs that seem to exist from the firmware versions you listed, talk about the luck of the draw about which version a buyer would get. IMO, the mixing of async and sync versions being sold is in a sense worse than changing to async and staying that way. Does the price of the V300 fluctuate with the type of NAND used? Or is changing to async for some production runs a method of keeping the price more constant, given changes in NAND cost?
post #45 of 165
Well AnandTech finally came out with an updated review of the V300 today.

http://anandtech.com/show/7763/an-update-to-kingston-ssdnow-v300-a-switch-to-slower-micron-nand


[Edited to give TweakTown the benefit of the doubt]
Edited by Scootcha - 3/3/14 at 5:12pm
post #46 of 165
I think this NAND appeared about April or May of last year, thought earlier versions were still possible 6 months later? Anyone know? Kingston initial replies (ATTO tests remain the same) and current claim (ATTO remains the same) definitely taste sour.
A distinctive designation, and "current" review samples, were the reasonable behavior. The responses made were and are disappointing.
post #47 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by brasslad View Post

I think this NAND appeared about April or May of last year, thought earlier versions were still possible 6 months later? Anyone know? Kingston initial replies (ATTO tests remain the same) and current claim (ATTO remains the same) definitely taste sour.
A distinctive designation, and "current" review samples, were the reasonable behavior. The responses made were and are disappointing.

I bought my sync in February and then the first asynch around May. The data opk11 has compiled indicates that they then could have returned once again to the sync with the 520 release. Some folks have fairly recently reported still getting the good versions so it is a complete crap shoot on what happens to be in stock.

I was tempted to tell the writer on AnandTech that Kingston has probably already violated the "I hope this is just a one-time occasion because that's perhaps excusable, but if this becomes a habit things will start to be fishy." premise by going back and forth multiple times.
post #48 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsec View Post


Once the firmware is updated to 525, you can't tell what type you have, except by the benchmark results.

And here I thought this could not get any more perverse. I was wrong.
post #49 of 165
Thread Starter 
Yeah from all of the benchmarks I've looked at it looks like the drives started showing up Q1 or Q2 of last year. I've seen people buying V300s very recently on sites like Amazon and Newegg that are still getting synchronous versions of the drives though so IDK what the deal is with Kingston producing these drives. I'm sure some retailers were able to hold on to some old stock but I would guess larger retailers would have exhausted the 505s pretty quickly.

Sucks about the firmware 525. What are you basing that off of that they can be either synchronous or asynchronous? Just from benches from users?
post #50 of 165
Swedish review site nordichardware.se piles on.

[Cut and paste from Google translation]
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
"SSD reviews - Published 2014-03-06 16:25 Written by Gustav Gager


There are several conclusions we can draw from our tests we made today. Switching from Toggle 2.0 to asynchronous NAND has a huge impact on device performance. Not only we saw a marked deterioration in our synthetic Iometer tests. We also see significant performance loss in our tests that are based on actual use. In our own NHSB test suite that measures the performance at different usage scenario, perform the new version of the V300 13.6 percent, 30 percent and 35 percent of three tests. The heavier the test, the larger is the difference. Unfortunately, it is not just that the new version is worse in most tests. It loses most of the tests that are absolutely important for the user experience. In many cases, so is it even slower than Kingston V +200 that already when it was released 2 years ago was considered a budget unit.

We are disappointed at how Kingston has acted in this case, not least because Kingston has been so good at driving with open cards before. It's one thing to release a new version of a SSD that has inferior components and degraded performance. But to do it without modifying either the specifications or the product name, while the unit occasionally only provide a fraction of its predecessor's performance, is rather a scandal.

The ball is in the King's hands

So what can a consumer, for example, based their purchase on our previous tests in Swedish SSD wizard of the original model of the V300 do? Unfortunately there probably is not much more to do than to complain to the manufacturer Kingston. Kingston itself has not done anything wrong. According to their specifications so should V300 able to deliver 450 megabytes per second when writing and reading data - the test program Atto. There is something both the old and the new model of the V300 can handle. The problem is that the results that we see in the Atto is not somehow anchored with performance in ordinary use.

Should we summarize the situation, it looks as follows.
• The model of Kingston V300 is now the most frequent in Swedish computer stores uses asynchronous memory circuits (Model number is 506A and 521A).
• The above model is still Kingston's vulnerable performance specifications for measurements in Atto.
• The performance on traditional use and in common usage scenario would radically impaired compared with the model of the V300 that Kingston was originally launched and that most of the media done performance testing on.
• At the general office performs new V300 30 percent worse than the older model.
• When reading large files in the Windows unit falling 60 per cent of the rate compared to the original model.
• The unit performs in many cases worse than the manufacturer's Senior Budget Unit V +200.
• Despite these radical performance differences are selling Kingston still drive with the same name and the same price tag

Nordic Hardware has contacted Kingston before this test and asked for an official comment on the situation. Pending further information from their U.S. headquarters, we have so far been content to Kingston stands by the units' performance specifications. Which our own tests in Atto also confirms that you actually do. Kingston has also chosen to send us an additional unit that will represent the units that are sold in stores today. One unit we will try to come to see if the performance is slightly different to our tests, the drive we ourselves got hold of a Swedish computer store.

Kingston is one of the few manufacturers who managed to cope with the fierce competition in the SSD market despite neither own NAND production or access to its own control circuit. As the competition is getting tougher so can every mistake can be devastating. This was an unnecessary mistake that Kingston could easily have avoided by continuing in the same manner as previous NAND flash replacement.

Kingston and other manufacturers must change the specification model

Our hope and call to Kingston is that it enables its customers to trade in their "new" V300 drives against an SSD, which offers similar performance to the original unit of V300 actually offered. We also hope that this may be the beginning of a discussion at Kingston and other SSD manufacturers to stop using Atto as a benchmark for performance specifications of their SSDs. We have long pointed out, and reaffirmed that the results obtained in Atto is far from being anchored to traditional usage scenario and in other words is almost useless for consumers to base their buying advice at. They can, as in the case of Kingston V300, rather misleading.

For those looking for answers to the question of which SSD you should put your money on, we instead recommend you to read Swedish SSD wizard . The world's largest SSD tests where we highlight the devices that actually performs the best and the best value. A guide that already earlier in the week was updated with a warning for Kingston V300 and which is continuously updated with similar information and market analysis.

Look at Nordic Hardware for further updates on the Kingston V300 and other upcoming SSD reportage."

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=http://www.nordichardware.se/SSD-Recensioner/nya-kingston-v300-du-betalar-fullpris-men-far-40-av-prestandan.html&prev=/search?q%3Dv300%2Bnand%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1345%26bih%3D759%26tbs%3Dqdr:h
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