Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Mice › CM Storm Alcor and Mizar
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

CM Storm Alcor and Mizar - Page 8

post #71 of 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMCarter View Post

Keep hearing chatter of a spawn v2 with a 3310? Wouldnt that be nice
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)



Please give that thing a lighter-weight cable though! I do prefer rubber over braided but the Spawn cable is heeaaavvvyyyy. Zowie cables are perfect IMO, and something like the G400 goes too far and so it breaks all the time.
Edited by Imprecision - 1/15/14 at 8:08am
post #72 of 560
Hi guys.

Please note these items are not final. We are very interested in hearing things from the community. The Alcor shown at CES had no rubber grips & a 3090.

We would like to here from the community.

3310? 3988?
Independent RGB Scroll? No lighting at all?
Side grips or different coating?
post #73 of 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMCarter View Post

Hi guys.

Please note these items are not final. We are very interested in hearing things from the community. The Alcor shown at CES had no rubber grips & a 3090.

We would like to here from the community.

3310? 3988?
Independent RGB Scroll? No lighting at all?
Side grips or different coating?

Definitely 3988!
I'd prefer no lights at all but doesn't matter that much.
Side grips or coating. Both is fine, but others will have strong oppinions on this xD
post #74 of 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMCarter View Post

Hi guys.

Please note these items are not final. We are very interested in hearing things from the community. The Alcor shown at CES had no rubber grips & a 3090.

We would like to here from the community.

3310? 3988?
Independent RGB Scroll? No lighting at all?
Side grips or different coating?

Pick the sensor which you can get the most responsiveness out of - I don't know if you are able to tweak the smoothing of the sensor but try and get it as low as possible or have a firmware with less smoothing if you want to market a higher DPI value. I personally like the customization of the 3310 and preferred the general feel of the 3310 over the S3988 - Deathadder vs Rival, but I do prefer the S3688/S3888 (Old DA/Abyssus) over those two.

If you can lower the smoothing, I'm sure people would buy it, even I would despite being a claw gripper waiting for the Spawn/Xornet refresh (I saw the Xornet thread on Deskthority).

Regarding lighting, I'm fine with or without it as long it doesn't add a significant amount of weight. Personally I'm fine up to 95g but prefer around 80g, depending on the shape I guess.

Side grips on the Spawn were great but became shiny after a while so if the grips are like that, definitely go with the grips, although it's definitely subjective to ones own tolerances.

I would also definitely pay more for Omron Japan switches (D2F-01F) or a good batch of a D2FC-F-7N (Spawn switches were the best I've had tbh) and a good scroll wheel encoder (I liked the one in the Kone Pure Optical). Good switches for the mouse wheel (I personally use it a lot) would be beneficial for some users too. That would be the perfect mouse for me, as Topre switches (HHKB2 Case Mount) are the best for keyboard in my subjective opinion and for my uses.

Also, with FW 201 of the Spawn, are you fixing the prediction? (Most noticeable drawing circles), it's still my favourite mouse shape.
post #75 of 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMCarter View Post

3310? 3988?
Independent RGB Scroll? No lighting at all?
Side grips or different coating?

I would buy the optical one only if it had side grips, otherwise i could stick with the zowie EC's(and of course a sensor which doesn't let you down).
lightning or not doesn't make much of a difference in weight anyways, so you can put in whatever you want.

If i had to decide, i would put in omron d2f-01f and a cable as thin and flexible as the ones from the razer DA 3G(or even better from the diamondbacks).
PC
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Xeon E3-1230v3  MSI Z87-G43 MSI GTX 970 Gaming 4G 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LP 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung evo 830 120GB  Samsung evo 840 250GB 2x Samsung Spinpoint F1 Scythe Mugen 4 PCGH ed. 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 10 Pro x64  Acer Predator XB240HA(G-SYNC) Logitech G410  be quiet! Straight Power E7 580W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Carbide Series 300R Logitech G403(w/ paracord) Artisan Shiden Snow White L XSOFT  Soundblaster Z 
AudioAudio
Sennheiser HD-590 AKG K712 Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
PC
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Xeon E3-1230v3  MSI Z87-G43 MSI GTX 970 Gaming 4G 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LP 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung evo 830 120GB  Samsung evo 840 250GB 2x Samsung Spinpoint F1 Scythe Mugen 4 PCGH ed. 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 10 Pro x64  Acer Predator XB240HA(G-SYNC) Logitech G410  be quiet! Straight Power E7 580W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Carbide Series 300R Logitech G403(w/ paracord) Artisan Shiden Snow White L XSOFT  Soundblaster Z 
AudioAudio
Sennheiser HD-590 AKG K712 Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #76 of 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMCarter View Post

Hi guys.

Please note these items are not final. We are very interested in hearing things from the community. The Alcor shown at CES had no rubber grips & a 3090.

We would like to here from the community.

3310? 3988?
Independent RGB Scroll? No lighting at all?
Side grips or different coating?

What are the native steps of the PAW-3310? I'm assuming it has some if it is built upon the ADNS-3090. Are we talking about the S3988 used in the DA2013? How is that different from the PAW-3310?



Your best bet may be to use the ADNS-3090 because most "enthusiasts" are scared of the PAW-3310 because of the smoothing. Now that Roach has scared people away from the 4000cpi version it may be worth using the 3500 instead. You have the same problems the audiophile community has. People swear they can hear/feel differences but it could simply be expectation bias, placebo etc... Unless you do proper blind ABX testing you really don't know. It's very easy to imagine differences, especially when you have been primed by other peoples reports of smoothing.

Personally, I'd rather have the PAW-3310. Having a selectable cpi step every 100 is pretty useful but I don't know whether this is interpolation or if it has native steps every ~80 or so like the A9800.

Lights off by default. Many people would use the mouse without your software. This also means having sensible cpi steps and most importantly that includes a 400 cpi step.

I found the problem with the rubber side grips on the DA2013 was that they become slippery when your hands get a little sweaty. The top coat of the DA2013 was very slippery with dry hands but a little moisture made it become very sticky (which I liked). The slipperyness of the top coat with dry hands made me rely upon using the rubber side grips but the weight balance was different because of how I held the mouse and the back of the mouse would fall downwards. To give an example of what I mean, pick up the mouse with two fingers near the front of the mouse. You'll find the back of the mouse starts falling downwards because of the pivot point (your fingers) isn't balanced.

I've never found a plastic on a mouse that is sticky with both dry and wet hands. However, as it is a palm mouse I find that it has to be grippy when your hand gets a little sweaty which will inevitably happen with a palm grip. This meant the side grips were important until your hand got sweaty enough that the top surface become sticky enough to pick up the mouse.

Edit:

On a second note. I don't believe you can't advertise to "core gamers" and "enthusiasts" with the same mouse. When I first heard of the PAW-3310 I thought it was going to be the tipping point where the CPI was high enough that it would be appealing to the clueless who think "higher DPI is better" and also satisfy enthusiasts who want no acceleration or angle-snapping. I thought that a mouse with sensible CPI steps, that has LEDs off by default, and can it's polling rate set the same way Zowie does, would be enough to satiate enthusiasts. The popularity of the PAW-3310 with other established gaming companies I hoped would make for an unspoken rule in to use the PAW-3310 over the A9800. It's a shame that the A9800 just won't die as I'd rather have the PLN2033 over it.
Edited by BeepBoopBaBop - 1/16/14 at 1:43pm
post #77 of 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMCarter View Post

Hi guys.

Please note these items are not final. We are very interested in hearing things from the community. The Alcor shown at CES had no rubber grips & a 3090.

We would like to here from the community.

3310? 3988?
Independent RGB Scroll? No lighting at all?
Side grips or different coating?

Sensor should be tweaked so its as responsive as adns 3060 or like 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBoopBaBop View Post

Your best bet is to use the ADNS-3090 because most "enthusiasts" are scared of the PAW-3310 because of the smoothing. Now that Roach has scared people away from the 4000cpi version it may be worth using the 3500 instead. You have the same problems the audiophile community has. People swear they can hear/feel differences but it could simply be expectation bias, placebo etc... Unless you do proper blind ABX testing you really don't know. It's very easy to imagine differences, especially when you have been primed by other peoples reports of smoothing.

g400 with adns-3090 and 3600 firmware is already much less responsive than adns-3080 of mx518.
I tried xornet with 3050, its worse than havoc with 9800(which is quite fine).
Its not placebo or wanting to imagine difference, I immediately felt the difference after "upgrading" mouse way before r0ach "scared people". There's no way you get high dpi on 30x30 image sensor array without some strong smoothing/post processing algorithms.

No its not the same problem as the audiophile community has, this one is real and measurable, but most people dont own high speed cameras.
post #78 of 560
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berserker1 View Post

Sensor should be tweaked so its as responsive as adns 3060 or like 2020
g400 with adns-3090 and 3600 firmware is already much less responsive than adns-3080 of mx518.
I tried xornet with 3050, its worse than havoc with 9800(which is quite fine).
Its not placebo or wanting to imagine difference, I immediately felt the difference after "upgrading" mouse way before r0ach "scared people". There's no way you get high dpi on 30x30 image sensor array without some strong smoothing/post processing algorithms.

No its not the same problem as the audiophile community has, this one is real and measurable, but most people dont own high speed cameras.

It's real and measurable but there is no proof. So we don't know if it's real. It would be nice to see some research done into whether users can really distinguish between different sensors and mice through blind ABX testing.

The point though is that Coolermaster doesn't have to make a responsive mouse. They have to make a mouse that you believe is responsive. If it turned out that people couldn't tell apart the PAW-3310 from the 3090, people would still believe that the 3090 was more responsive and would testify on to the forum saying as such because of their subjective experience. They may be objectively wrong and they may not be able to tell them apart in a blind ABX test, but perception is what sells mice not objectivity.

So the question for Coolermaster is whether the difference in lost sales from enthusiasts by using the PAW-3310 over the 3090 would be greater or less than the gained sales of using the PAW-3310 with it's higher CPI that appeals to "core gamers". Perception is what sells mice not objective differences.
Edited by BeepBoopBaBop - 1/16/14 at 1:36pm
post #79 of 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBoopBaBop View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berserker1 View Post

Sensor should be tweaked so its as responsive as adns 3060 or like 2020
g400 with adns-3090 and 3600 firmware is already much less responsive than adns-3080 of mx518.
I tried xornet with 3050, its worse than havoc with 9800(which is quite fine).
Its not placebo or wanting to imagine difference, I immediately felt the difference after "upgrading" mouse way before r0ach "scared people". There's no way you get high dpi on 30x30 image sensor array without some strong smoothing/post processing algorithms.

No its not the same problem as the audiophile community has, this one is real and measurable, but most people dont own high speed cameras.

It's real and measurable but there is no proof. So we don't know if it's real. A high speed camera and a low latency 120hz monitor should be enough to prove if there is a measurable difference and secondly the question is whether users can notice this difference. It would be nice to see some research done into whether users can really distinguish between different sensors and mice through blind ABX testing.

My phone has 120 FPS slow mo mode lol there are some ways

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
L1m1t
(22 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5 GHz ASUS P8Z68-V LX ASUS DirectCU II GTX 770 OC Patriot G2 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Caviar Black Kingston SSDNow Cooler Master Hyper 212+ Windows 8.1 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VG248QE SteelSeries 6Gv2 MX Red Corsair TX650 NZXT Source 210 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Zowie FK1 Puretrak Talent ASUS Xonar DG Sennheiser PC350 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative Fatal1ty HS-800 Shure SRH440 Audio Technica ATH-M40x AKG K701 
AudioAudio
beyerdynamic DT770 AKG K550 
  hide details  
Reply
L1m1t
(22 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5 GHz ASUS P8Z68-V LX ASUS DirectCU II GTX 770 OC Patriot G2 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Caviar Black Kingston SSDNow Cooler Master Hyper 212+ Windows 8.1 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VG248QE SteelSeries 6Gv2 MX Red Corsair TX650 NZXT Source 210 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Zowie FK1 Puretrak Talent ASUS Xonar DG Sennheiser PC350 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative Fatal1ty HS-800 Shure SRH440 Audio Technica ATH-M40x AKG K701 
AudioAudio
beyerdynamic DT770 AKG K550 
  hide details  
Reply
post #80 of 560
Sensor-3310
Rubber side grips
Lights if it doesn't add much weight.
thumb.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mice
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Mice › CM Storm Alcor and Mizar