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XFX Core Edition 650W vs. 750W: which one should I buy? - Page 7

post #61 of 144
Thread Starter 
PSU.pdf 124k .pdf file
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

The 50% is not for the peak. If your peak were 50%, then your average would be much lower and that would reduce your average and overall efficiency. It could also reduce the quality of the PSU's power output, at least from what I've heard.

So what Cyro says it's true, that I should target 80% of the power?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Can you run the calculator one more time? This time, click its built-in Print button and post a screenshot of that printer-friendly page. I want to see why it's estimating what it's estimating.

Look at the attachment smile.gif
For the "peak draw" I meant the maximum amount of power required in some particular moments, i.e. boot. It's what eXtreme calls "system load".... maybe I'm saying something sacrilegous....
Edited by FabTheZen - 1/14/14 at 1:21pm
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post #62 of 144
I dunno how it's getting to 612 watts
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post #63 of 144
TLDR
peak power draw on eXtreme PSU calc = furmark AND prime95 running at the same time while adding 100 watts for good measure. tongue.gif
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post #64 of 144
770 gaming at max oc ~180w at full load maybe peaking 200 or so

770 furmarking at stock = ~255w (hard power limit when set to max power limit on default bios)

up to you which number to take tongue.gif
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post #65 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by FabTheZen View Post

PSU.pdf 124k .pdf file
So what Cyro says it's true, that I should target 80% of the power?
Look at the attachment smile.gif
For the "peak draw" I meant the maximum amount of power required in some particular moments, i.e. boot. It's what eXtreme calls "system load".... maybe I'm saying something sacrilegous....

 

I was hoping for a screenshot so that I can work with it in the post. However, I took the opportunity to use the Pro version of the calculator to show you what went wrong. Also, look at the +12V capacity recommendations and multiply them by 12 (because it's 12V power) to see what the +12V wattage capacity recommendations are.

 

Here's yours as you gave it to me, but in the Pro version of this calculator:

 

FabTheZenPSU1.png 

 

As you can see, the +12V capacity recommendation is 47.9A which is 574.8W, or 575W. This means that any decent 650W PSU would be more than plenty. It's the recommended, not the minimum.

 

However, that's a bloated estimate. Here's the problem: you chose a System Load of 90%. This means that 90% of your computer is under full load. While gaming, a much more realistic System Load is 75%, because about 75% of a typical computer during a typical gaming session is under full load, So, if you chose 100%, then that would be saying that 100% of your computer is under full load. This could be a little confusing, so is this making sense to you?

 

 

 

Here's the same calculation (or "estimate") with 75% System Load:

 

FabTheZenPSU2.png 

 

The +12V capacity recommendation is very interesting. 40.5A is 486W which is very close to 40A, or 480W. There are some very solid 520W PSUs that have a +12V capacity of 40A (480W). There are also some very good 550W PSUs that have a +12V capacity of 540W or even 546W. Therefore, a good quality-made 550W PSU is more than plenty for this. Again, we're looking at the recommended capacity, not the minimum.

 

So, this is why I hate these calculators. No one uses the Pro version, and what's worse, most people who'd use the Pro version would pay far more attention to the recommended wattage than the recommended +12V capacity! As you can see, the recommended +12V capacity disagrees with their recommended wattage!

 

It gets worse. Go back to the calculator and set up the CPU and the overclock again. After that, look at the stock voltage for the CPU. Does that seem realistic to you for the 4670K? I mean, 1.25V Try other CPUs with other sockets. Hell, try AMD's CPUs. You'll notice that WAY too many of them show a stock voltage of 1.25V on this calculator. Now, type in different stock voltages and click "Overclock" each time you change it. Watch how it changes the CPU's wattage estimate. Isn't that interesting?

 

So yeah, don't pay too much attention to what these calculators tell you. They just exist to satisfy the demands of the innocently-ignorant masses.


Edited by TwoCables - 1/14/14 at 2:14pm
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post #66 of 144
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the great reference that your post is going to be, though I think this is why the site recommends 650W: if you sum up the powers from the three channels (3.3V,5V and 12V) the total power becomes 3.3*5.0+5*11.6+12*40.5=560.5W
Is there a reason why I should only count the +12V channel? Sorry for the ignorance rolleyes.gif

Meanwhile in previous thread people are discussing about which 1500W PSU to buy..... top lel
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post #67 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by FabTheZen View Post

Thanks for the great reference that your post is going to be, though I think this is why the site recommends 650W: if you sum up the powers from the three channels (3.3V,5V and 12V) the total power becomes 3.3*5.0+5*11.6+12*40.5=560.5W
Is there a reason why I should only count the +12V channel? Sorry for the ignorance rolleyes.gif

Meanwhile in previous thread people are discussing about which 1500W PSU to buy..... top lel

 

Well, the PSU recommendations made by AMD, NVIDIA and professional review sites are all for peak-rated PSUs. The +12V capacity of the typical peak-rated 650W PSU would be between 450 and 470W. I've found that if you multiply the recommendation by .72, then you usually get the +12V capacity of such a PSU, and it comes out to be 468W, or 39A. Again, 40A is 480W, so this means that the recommendation could be "any good quality-made 520W PSU as long as the +12V capacity is at least 40A". This ensures that the entire system will always have enough power, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't use a high-end 450W PSU that has a +12V capacity of 444W (37A). It would cut it extremely close, but it might work for such a recommendation.

 

So, as you might have noticed, there's a general rule of thumb that you can follow: subtract 100W from the PSU recommendation made by either AMD, NVIDIA or a professional review site, and then you'll have the good quality-made PSU wattage (which would be rated by its continuous capacity). However, I would always recommend just asking in order to be absolutely sure.

 

Anyway, yeah, I honestly hate that mentality of "I want a 1500W PSU even though I'll never have more than 1 or 2 video cards. That way, I will have truly future-proofed my system". Yeah, not only have you future-proofed your system, but you've made it impossible to achieve the advertised efficiency and you're doing daily harm to your PSU and your computer by having such an extremely tiny power draw 24/7. Then later on down the road, they wonder why they're having problems with their computer. I always facepalm and I just want to say, "well duh! Look at how overkill your friggin' PSU is! 1500W and your MAXIMUM power consumption is only 300-400W?! Sigh". lol Except, I'd rather be nice about it because no one deserves to be treated that way.

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post #68 of 144
I will say again though; i've seen a bunch of calculators calculating 770 "power consumption" as ~230w just from their TDP, and none of them actually not doing it yet. Which number is it using? You can shave 100 watts right there (50 per gpu)
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post #69 of 144

It's not using any specific number. See for yourself by doing this:

 

Go to the callculator: http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

 

Click Calculate. Trust me, just click it. You'll get 88W.

 

Then, add nothing except for a GTX 770. Then click Calculate again. It adds 199W making 287W.

 

Now, add a 2nd 770. It adds 164W, making 451W.

 

Now, click the link above for the calculator again. This time, switch the System Load to 75% (or just, change it to something other than 90%). Now, click Calculate. After that, add a GTX 770. How many watts did it add this time?

 

Off topic: I see that it adds less than 199W, meaning that the System Load is a little bit different than I thought. 90% means that 100% of the computer is at 90% load. 75% load means that 100% of the computer is at 75% load. I get it now, and now it makes even more sense to me why I was told use 75% for the most reasonably-accurate estimation for a gaming power draw.

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post #70 of 144
Thread Starter 
At the cost of being repetitive, thank you both, but I haven't understood yet why you're ignoring all the rails that are not +12V, they still contribute to the whole power drain, isn't it? There's something I'm not getting right, would you please explain?
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