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Need help with offset

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
This is the first time I've gotten really deeply into CPU overclocking. I've been following Swag's Ivy Bridge Guide very closely, and I have a stable clock/voltage on manual. My 3570k is at 4500 and 1.32V, nothing spectacular but it's a place for me to settle for now and learn how offset works.

I've been reading up about how to overclock via offset, but it just isn't working for me. I was under the impression that it worked as follows:

[known stable voltage] - [max VID] = offset

I'm seeing the VID get up to 1.356V, so I tried an offset of -0.025. That was unstable, so I tried a few others. All of them resulted in peak load voltages that were less than what I needed, and idle voltages that were slightly below idle VID.

Because none of the offsets between -0.025 and zero were working, I decided to put it back on auto and see what it would do. This created hugely different voltages up to ~1.5, which makes no sense to me. I assumed that the auto voltage would be the VID.

After reading up a lot, it seems like I either don't understand how this is supposed to work or there is something that I'm not missing. I know that vdroop needs to be considered when determining the offset, but I have no idea how to know exactly what the vdroop is. I also read a bit about LLC, and I'm very suspicious that it is the source of my problems.

I've been stress testing with p95 and monitored the temps/voltages with real temp (later CPUID HWMonitor, just because it allowed me to see VID and actual voltage together in real time). For the most part, I stuck with the settings in Swag's guide. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
post #2 of 22
Ivy uses dynamic vid, which means the Auto Vcore at load depends on the multiplier.
So if your seeing a 1.5v you need a large negative offset.
Keep LLC at the medium or high level.
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post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasjeet View Post

Ivy uses dynamic vid, which means the Auto Vcore at load depends on the multiplier.
So if your seeing a 1.5v you need a large negative offset.
Keep LLC at the medium or high level.

Well I understand that, but the maximum VID I saw while stress-testing was a little over 1.35, so why does the Vcore shoot up to 1.5 on auto? Also like I said, the negative offset is actually dropping the voltage too much. Even if I set it to -0.05 (smallest possible), I then end up with a peak voltage of 1.2. That doesn't make any sense to me - what exactly am I offsetting, if not the VID? And if I am supposed to be offsetting the VID, is it because the offset happens in a non-linear way? Is LLC skewing it? If so, do you have some info on how to account for that?

I had the LLC on ultra high (one setting below maximum) per the guide's instructions, I guess I'll try lowering it a couple of notches and see how that affects things. Still, it confuses me because everything I've read so far about LLC seemed to be saying that it affects voltage at idle and intermediate states, not peak load.
Edited by wampastompa - 1/11/14 at 11:06am
post #4 of 22
don't use auto voltage chose the overclock you are shooting for and use a manual vcore. From there use hardware monitor to monitor your max VID and max vcore while stress testing. After you find your stable manual voltage over clock, take you max vcore and max vid from hardware monitor and subtract them from eachother, that number will be your offset.

Example if you are at say 4.5ghz and say a manual vcore of 1.25volts and your VID is 1.20, your offset would be +.05 and start off with 75% LLC and go from there.
post #5 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma7820 View Post

don't use auto voltage chose the overclock you are shooting for and use a manual vcore. From there use hardware monitor to monitor your max VID and max vcore while stress testing. After you find your stable manual voltage over clock, take you max vcore and max vid from hardware monitor and subtract them from eachother, that number will be your offset.

Example if you are at say 4.5ghz and say a manual vcore of 1.25volts and your VID is 1.20, your offset would be +.05 and start off with 75% LLC and go from there.

That's exactly what my method was, the only reason I ever put it on auto was to try to figure out what the hell was going on. The part about auto voltage really has no relevance, I was only asking about that because it confused me that it did not match the VID.

The issue is that I did what you're saying, but when I went to apply the offset it did not work as intended and I can't find a way to make it work as intended except to go to a positive sign. That doesn't make sense though, because if the offset is really applying to the VID it should be negative. I saw a max VID of 1.36 while stress-testing, ~1.31-1.32 was where I was stable. To me that would mean an offset of about -0.03, but it ends up taking off a lot more voltage than that.
Edited by wampastompa - 1/11/14 at 11:28am
post #6 of 22
Try positive offset till it boots
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post #7 of 22
Just wondering, have you tried turning of XMP profile on your RAM and seeing what the VID goes to? I had some weird issue with my Mobo and 3570k with XMP causing the VID to change. And as someone said you do have LLC on medium or high no more. Just a thought.

EDIT I also had the issue of crazy V when I set to Auto, scared the hell out of me when I went to 4.5 auto to see and it was at 1.5 V biggrin.gif
Edited by Slink3Slyde - 1/11/14 at 4:14pm
post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slink3Slyde View Post

Just wondering, have you tried turning of XMP profile on your RAM and seeing what the VID goes to? I had some weird issue with my Mobo and 3570k with XMP causing the VID to change. And as someone said you do have LLC on medium or high no more. Just a thought.

EDIT I also had the issue of crazy V when I set to Auto, scared the hell out of me when I went to 4.5 auto to see and it was at 1.5 V biggrin.gif

Good to know. I'm not using XMP though, to my knowledge. I know there is a setting for automatically using XMP, but I have it set to manual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasjeet View Post

Try positive offset till it boots

I guess that's what I'm going to do, bothers me though because I don't feel like I have a firm grasp of how it's really supposed to work.
post #9 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by wampastompa View Post

Good to know. I'm not using XMP though, to my knowledge. I know there is a setting for automatically using XMP, but I have it set to manual.
I guess that's what I'm going to do, bothers me though because I don't feel like I have a firm grasp of how it's really supposed to work.

From my understanding of it, I read quite a lot of different guides and spent quite a long time overclocking my chip...

Some people hate LLC some people swear by it, (I use medium being cautious). Some people can reduce the CPU PLL to 1.5 to save a few degrees temp, mine hates being under 1.65 MY CPU PRC doesn't like being over medium makes it unstable. My offset is at -.0.080 at 4.2 ghz under load that's 1.216 V in cpuz with med LLC(not a great chip) some people are on auto at 4.2. So basically you can read all the guides there are and still find your chip and mobo combination works totally differently to everyone elses. It's mainly trial and error and educated guesses.

I then found I was 12 hour prime stable but when I played some games I would get errors. So I took a notch off the offset raising the load V and tried again, the errors went away.

So if YOUR chip needs a small positive offset and your VID doesnt match what it should (as mine didnt) then you just have to keep testing it until you work out how your particular combination of hardware works and that's fine and normal.

If I'm getting it wrong then anyone feel free to jump in and slap me down biggrin.gif I only overclocked this one chip, but it has been running absolutely fine for over a year as it is.
post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 
Good info, I'm finding out that a small positive offset is exactly what I needed.

I guess to put it concisely, I was confused because of a couple of things:

- The offset I'm ending up with is nowhere near what I expected from reading guides and approaching it logically (I guess because of LLC)

- I assumed that the auto setting would be equivalent to zero offset because it is positioned between -0.05 and +0.05. It isn't.


I agree that your chip isn't great, but I don't think mine is either and I think you could do a lot better. The voltage you're using is pretty low, Ivy Bridge can go much higher than 1.2V. Are your temps too high? If not, keep going. I've done a lot of reading too and I know that it's perfectly safe to get your temps up in the 90s while stress testing. Max is 105, and you will never hit your stress test temps in normal use. I'm at 4.5 GHz and 1.3V right now, and my temps never get higher than about 75-80. Once I get a better handle of working with offset, I plan to keep pushing it.

Like you said, I can get 4.2 GHz on auto with no issues and very reasonable temps. I've seen the success others have with the 3570 and I don't think my chip is that great either.
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