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post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I want to do a custom system. I have a H55 and a 120M in my box now.

My goal is a 360 and a 280 to cool the CPU and GPU respectively. I may decide on a TEC to be included to chill the coolant.

My thinking comes in here and forgive me for my lack of knowledge on the subject.
I don't want to loop warm coolant from one piece to another so I'm thinking why not run a "T" from the inlet side providing the same temp coolant to both and run a "T" from the warm side back to radiators which I would want to loop together.

I do have another thought but I'm not sure how good it is.
Could I use the pumps I have inline vs buying a separate dedicated unit?
The reason is I could use them to sandwich a TEC with one as the intake side to chill the coolant after exiting the last radiator on the way to the chips and one for outlet side to the first radiator for the hot coolant to be cooled.

Sound reasonable?

I'm looking for discussion on why it may or may not work and get feedback on the idea. I don't get offended and if something didn't make sense lemme know I'll try and restate it so it does if I'm able.

BTW, I'm looking at doing this in a box like a Corsair 750D, NZXT 810 Switch, Cooler Master Cosmos SE or Cooler Master HAF Stacker 935 although I'm not sure if the Cosmos or Switch will allow a 2nd power supply to be added should I elect to do so.

Appreciate your time and input.

SS
post #2 of 15
If you use a tee, how will you control the volume of water going to each component?

And, if you could split it 50/50, the flow rate to each component would be halved. Higher flow rater = more efficient cooling (due to non-laminar flow). It's the turbulance at the heat transfer surface that makes cooling more efficient.

Could I use the pumps I have inline vs buying a separate dedicated unit?
The reason is I could use them to sandwich a TEC with one as the intake side to chill the coolant after exiting the last radiator on the way to the chips and one for outlet side to the first radiator for the hot coolant to be cooled.


what? Could you post a sketch of what you're talking about.?
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post #3 of 15
I tee is a great idea for twin GPU Water Blocks as long as you have identical flow paths both ways....the restriction thru the GPU blocks will be identical. OTOH, the loss thru the CPU and GPU blocks will NOT be identical nor will the flow paths to / from the CPU and GPU blocks. Ya might get lucky, ya might not.

To address your concerns, I would have the 280 after the CPU and the 360 after the GFX card to maintain the most constant temp thru the loop. I have a 280 and a 420 and I see about 1.3C delta T thru the 420 and 1.0 thru the 280 .... I have twin 7870s w/ 25% OC feeding the 420 (fan filters not in place).

As for your case..... The Phanteks Enthoo Primo easily fits a 420 on the top and a 280 on the bottom (or two 480s). Just took a Best Case of the Year award from hardware canuks at CES this week and is now only $209 on newegg after $20 rebate .... extra fans are also 20% off....and iot holds 2nd PSU....tho i don't see the need for one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811854001


Check out the reviews on Modzoo, hardware canucks and even the Enthoo Owners Club here on OCN
Edited by JackNaylorPE - 1/11/14 at 8:38pm
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post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 
Info is good gentlemen!

IF the the block volumes are = (I'd need to ensure that I guess?) would not the flow be the same? If need be I'd use twin CPU blocks and red mod the gpu mount to ensure that. wink.gif

OK, how about a twist I was kicking about on the way home from my "Holiday" (I hate PC jargon) party ................... I have a full size 20 cubic foot freezer in my basement which just happens to be directly below where this box is. I was thinking of using it as the chiller, insulating the fluid lines to the blocks, punching holes in my floor and routing said lines to my cpu/gpu via a HD pump of some sort sending coolant to the cores and then to a rad to pre-coolthe coolant which is then sent back down stairs to say a 5 gallon resivior tank within the freezer (my wife doesn't need to know) back to the blocks again with tees.

If the blocks are = in volume/flow and the split to each tee = in length then the flow paths should be, in theory, the same .... yes/no?

My goal here would be below freezing coolant to the blocks constantly with plenty of coolant volume to ensure it has no time to actually become above freezing even with SLI/Crossfire cards (which I don't have yet) included in the mix.

Am I thinking crazy here or am I just nutz?

PS -- saw the Phanteks Phanteks Enthoo that's why I mentioned it. thumb.gifthumb.gif

SS
Edited by ssiperko - 1/11/14 at 9:13pm
post #5 of 15
K, lots of your stuff is fairly unclear on how you intend to do it, so I'm just going to start shooting some data about the subjects, for future reference you may want to include pictures about the planned loop, all it takes is a picture of the barebones case/mobo and microsoft paint with some crudely drawn squares/tubes and labels.

Never split flow between anything but identical GPU blocks. Using the T fitting so each device get's the same temp coolant is completely counter productive. Water has an insanely high heat capacity. To increase the temp of one liter of water by 1 degree Celsius you need just over 4100 joules. Joules isn't used too much when discussing energy anymore, so just as reference watts is joules per second. At 1 gallon per minute you would need just over 200 watts of heat to increase the loops temp going out of the block by 1 Celsius, that means the total temp difference between your CPU and GPU is going to be about 1 degree Celsius. That means the actual difference in cooling efficiency due to different cooling temperatures will be entirely negligible. Now by halving the flowrates to the blocks, you'd get a notable performance drop assuming you don't intend to have 2GPM+ flowrates, which will be fairly hard to achieve as you'd need at least two high end pumps.

So in short, there's absolutely no need nor reason to split the flow between the GPU/CPU, you'd have more performance drops than gains, if any gains.

As the TEC suggestion, it was hard to understand what you were purposing by the text so I'll just say this: A TEC chiller will ALWAYS mean dual loop if you intend to liquid cool the TECs. TECs move heat in addition to adding their own, there is simply no practical way you can cool the TEC in the same loop you're chilling. Some people have successfully used air cooling to cool TECs, so you might be able to go that route, but it'd take a lot of planning. Post some stuff in the TEC section if you want to figure out a TEC chiller based loop.

As the freezer suggestion: No. That's it.

Fridges nor freezers are not designed to remove active heatloads. They are designed to have an extremely high delta temp, that being the difference between ambient temps and the difference between internal temps. They are VERY well insulated, so they don't need to run often. Basically, it runs for a few minutes, to bring the temps down to a certain goal, then turn off. Then when temps get over a certain mark, that repeats. They never run very long, and they really don't move THAT MUCH heat. They are phase change coolers, meaning they compress a refrigerant which makes it really hot. then they go through a valve that decompresses it, which makes it VERY cold.

Most all phase change coolers has 3 parts:
A compressor which, as the name suggest, compresses the refrigerant.

A condenser which cools the now compressed and heated refrigerant.

These usually consist of a high pressure rated radiator which have fans that blow air over it, removing heat from it.

Last but not least, an evaporator which gets really cold, and cools whatever medium you are cooling.

The reason I go over that is due the nature of most all freezers phase change loop. The condenser is nothing more than copper tubes rewound on the back of the fridge, outside of the insulation. There is no fans, no airflow, just copper tubes. It doesn't remove much heat.

If a fridge/freezer had to cool an active heatload the compressor would burn out, and you'd kill the fridge/freezer.

Simply won't work.

If you want a benching loop, some people have found ways around that flaw. They build a big tank with an open top, and fill it with one liter jugs willed with ice. They simply fill the jugs with water, freeze them, and pop them in the chamber. This allows them to use a freezer to cool their stuff without actually incorporating the freezer in the loop. This is, obviously, a temporary use design so it's really only good for benching their hardware.

Anyways, I hope this all helped.

On a side note, I doubt the crappy little pumps in your AIO CLCs are very good. You might want to rip them out and get a proper D5 or DDC pump in there. I know the Corsair one won't due any good, but the 120M I don't know for sure.
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post #6 of 15
And loop routing really doesn't make much difference at all. Of course you want to make it as short as possible and use the least restrictive tubing and fittings, to reduce flow restriction. The temperatures anywhere in the loop, ie, after the pump or after the rad(s), will not vary by more than 0.5°F (typically 0.25°F).

But, components in serial vs parallel makes a big difference, since the flow rate is haved.
Edited by billbartuska - 1/12/14 at 6:54am
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post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks men ..... appreciate the read and the time you took.

I will sit and sketch my thoughts out as based on your info they will now be revised.

The freezer and frozen bottle comments have me thinking some more. laughingsmiley.gif
I don't use this unit, it's empty now. I could easily put a couple big coolers in it .... well, I'll be back with perhaps more wacked out thoughts and some pics. thumb.gif

SS
post #8 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post

And loop routing really doesn't make much difference at all. Of course you want to make it as short as possible and use the least restrictive tubing and fittings, to reduce flow restriction. The temperatures anywhere in the loop, ie, after the pump or after the rad(s), will not vary by more than 0.5°F (typically 0.25°F).

But, components in serial vs parallel makes a big difference, since the flow rate is haved.

I have oft seen this repeated but can confirm that's far from anything I have ever seen when actually measuring the temps. I have temp sensors in and out on for each rad, as well as case and ambient temps. Temperature varies very significantly throughout the loop (420 + 280 rads w/ 1200 rpm fans) . I see 1.3C across one rad and 1.0 across the 2nd under Furmark. I'm using the Reeven Six Eyes and the temps are there for me to look at all day long. Even at idle, I see 0.4 across each rad. If I slow the pump down to 35% PWM the Delta T across the 2 can climb to 4C. The twin 780s (+25% OC) temps are 39C and the 4770k (4.6 GHz) at 74C when I set fans to full speed.....My fan curve cuts speeds to inaudible and GPUs will rise to 45-46C at that point.
Edited by JackNaylorPE - 1/12/14 at 12:04pm
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post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

I have oft seen this repeated but can confirm that's far from anything I have ever seen when actually measuring the temps. I have temp sensors in and out on for each rad, as well as case and ambient temps. Temperature varies very significantly throughout the loop (420 + 280 rads w/ 1200 rpm fans) . I see 1.3C across one rad and 1.0 across the 2nd under Furmark. I'm using the Reeven Six Eyes and the temps are there for me to look at all day long. Even at idle, I see 0.4 across each rad. If I slow the pump down to 35% PWM the Delta T across the 2 can climb to 4C. The twin 780s (+25% OC) temps are 39C and the 4770k (4.6 GHz) at 74C when I set fans to full speed.....My fan curve cuts speeds to inaudible and GPUs will rise to 45-46C at that point.

Yeah .5 Fahrenheit is definitely undershooting it, but he's got a CPU and a GPU. Assuming his CPU is first in the loop, and he has 1GPM he'd notice 1 Celsius hotter liquid temps over the GPU which will be entirely negligible as far as performance wise. Yeah, if you have a bunch of graphics cards it can change, but OP just has a CPU and a single GPU.
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post #10 of 15
I had temp probes on my 480 Rad's in and out and would see anywhere from 1c-3c differences in coolant temp depending on fan speeds
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