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Weird thing just happened with my Samsung EVO 840. Help please.

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
Hi OC.net.

I was using my new Samsung EVO 500gb for about a week now (First SSD for me, its awesome).

Today i got some HDDS from my old pc and plugged them into my rampage IV black edition.

When i tried transferring some files from my old HDD's into my new 4TB WD black HDD , for some reason my SSD got hundreds of cloned files and it filled up all the space in a few minutes, Then a bit later all the copied files were deleted.

The files were called Magician tmp or something like that (maybe from the Samsung SSD magician software)

Could my SSD be acting as a Cache for my other drives or something or could it be from the over-provisioning setting in the software.

Drives
1x 500gb SSD into 6gb intel controller.
2x 4TB HDD into 6GB asrock media contoller.
3x random drives (2TB/500GB/ and 1TB) 3GB intel contoller.
Into rampage IV black edition.

Also
sorry off topic but do i need to enable Over Partintions on my ssd if so how much thanks.


Thank you.
post #2 of 19
Interesting, you may be seeing what happens when the EVO's TurboWrite cache is full, or overflowing.

Samsung EVOs use (in your case, 6GB) a portion of the NAND in a pseudo-SLC NAND mode to quickly write files copied to it (faster than the standard TLC used in EVOs), which it then writes to the regular TLC NAND when the SSD is idle.

You must have been copying more than 6GB of data from your HDDs at once. How did you copy the files, a drag and drop of one or more folders to the EVO? How much data did you copy at one time? How much data in total? What kind or size of files were being copied?

Did you have RAPID enabled on your EVO?

It sounds like the amount of data you copied from your HDDs was more than the EVO could handle once the TurboWrite cache was filled. I don't know if the .tmp files you saw were in the TurboWrite cache, or just the files being copied to permanent storage in the TLC NAND, and were not complete, so were all still labeled as .tmp.

What were you using to see all the .tmp files? Just Window Explorer?

Your experience might be an example of what happens to an EVO when the TurboWrite cache is overflowing, and the flushing of that cache to the regular TLC NAND could not keep up with what was being written to it from the TW cache, since writes to the TLC NAND is significantly slower. Or a similar side affect of using RAPID, which uses your system's memory as a cache, or a combination of all of the above.

You weren't doing anything wrong, but your experience might be revealing a flaw in the functioning of the EVOs design to speed up writing to the TLC NAND, the main downside of using TLC NAND.
post #3 of 19
It could be a trim command triggerd by the magician , the intel toolbox does the same thing when using the trimtool , al the free space is filled up by 1 GB files and they are deleted when done . this is happening in a flash and have no wear for the ssd .
post #4 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsec View Post

Interesting, you may be seeing what happens when the EVO's TurboWrite cache is full, or overflowing.

Samsung EVOs use (in your case, 6GB) a portion of the NAND in a pseudo-SLC NAND mode to quickly write files copied to it (faster than the standard TLC used in EVOs), which it then writes to the regular TLC NAND when the SSD is idle.

You must have been copying more than 6GB of data from your HDDs at once. How did you copy the files, a drag and drop of one or more folders to the EVO? How much data did you copy at one time? How much data in total? What kind or size of files were being copied?

Did you have RAPID enabled on your EVO?

It sounds like the amount of data you copied from your HDDs was more than the EVO could handle once the TurboWrite cache was filled. I don't know if the .tmp files you saw were in the TurboWrite cache, or just the files being copied to permanent storage in the TLC NAND, and were not complete, so were all still labeled as .tmp.

What were you using to see all the .tmp files? Just Window Explorer?

Your experience might be an example of what happens to an EVO when the TurboWrite cache is overflowing, and the flushing of that cache to the regular TLC NAND could not keep up with what was being written to it from the TW cache, since writes to the TLC NAND is significantly slower. Or a similar side affect of using RAPID, which uses your system's memory as a cache, or a combination of all of the above.

You weren't doing anything wrong, but your experience might be revealing a flaw in the functioning of the EVOs design to speed up writing to the TLC NAND, the main downside of using TLC NAND.






Tranfer went like this (Lol a bit complicated) random 250GB laptop drive, i transferred 136GB of game files-ranging from 100mb up to 13gb (Cut and Paste) into one of my new WD blacks (Drive is Called WD1).

At the same time I transferred 325GB from a 2TB drive into my other new WD black (Name WD2) this time if i remember i copied and pasted.
These fiels ranged from 100mb to 3GB. (Not sure if it matters but the 1TB drive i transferred from was from an old external drive, but its file system is set to FAT32 not NTSF so i cant put any files over 4gb in-it )

Not sure if RAPID is active cause i only have 4 gigs of ram (I was planning on getting 32GB Trident X soon though and partitioning half of it for drive caches). Also i set an over-partion of 50 gb on my SSD this morning not sure if that's better or not.


I'm just worried about he life span of my ssd then if random things will keep being written to it, any ideas how i can stop it?

Thank you very much for your reply.
+1
post #5 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred B View Post

It could be a trim command triggerd by the magician , the intel toolbox does the same thing when using the trimtool , al the free space is filled up by 1 GB files and they are deleted when done . this is happening in a flash and have no wear for the ssd .

So it shouldn't wear down my SSD?
Then thats good thank you very much.

BTW i just remembered on the Samsung magicain software they have an optimization tool which i used before transferring the files.

The tool says this on top of it "If your current OS does not offer trim support for SSDs, you can use Magician to optimize performance as needed".


Thank you.
+1
Edited by icebrain1 - 1/12/14 at 10:01pm
post #6 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by icebrain1 View Post

So it shouldn't wear down my SSD?
Then thats good thank you very much.

BTW i just remembered on the Samsung magicain software they have an optimization tool which i used before transferring the files.

The tool says this on top of it "If your current OS does not offer trim support for SSDs, you can use Magician to optimize performance as needed".


Thank you.
+1


No it should wear it down , i bet the tools use the same protocool to manuel trim ssd . I found abouth it a few years ago after running the trimtool and it stopped during operation leaving my ssd filled up with 1 GB files . It could be manuel removed and i copyed some from ssd to ssd array with 240MB average , the single ssd is a V40 ssd that reads max 190 , so that is weird . By pressin , ctr alt del , and stopping the trimtool in operation it is possible to capture these fliles smile.gif
post #7 of 19
The reason these temp files used to force a TRIM don't cause NAND wear is that no data is actually being written. They're what are called sparse NTFS files...in other words, a container is created of a certain size but there isn't anything in it. The side effect is that when you create then immediately delete this "container" file, all the empty space on the SSD is immediately TRIMed because according to Windows you just deleted a ton of data thumb.gif
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post #8 of 19
Why would Magician be issuing manual TRIM commands? Are you running Windows XP? Windows 7 or 8 should handle TRIM automatically - there should be no reason to manually TRIM your drive with Magician with Windows 7 or later.
post #9 of 19
In a perfect world that would be true.

I have found that there are times that TRIM commands don't ever get sent by Windows, such as if the system is under heavy load when deletions occur.

If I use SSDTOOL and do a manual TRIM after doing a bunch of archive processing on my SWAPTEMP SSD, it's obvious by the HDDLED that there was more TRIMing to be done.
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post #10 of 19
Sure, I wasn't arguing against using it manually, but rather it shouldn't be done automatically by Magician- only when you run optimize (I don't know what it does for XP). It did not sound like the OP was manually optimizing the SSD since it happened while he was transferring files.

But I have never seen s performance drop and I have used the SSD under high loads. Eventually garbage collection will recover even on XP.
Edited by GeneO - 1/13/14 at 2:17pm
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