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[Various] AMD Kaveri A10-7850K (7700K, 7600) reviews - Page 39

post #381 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuckley View Post

Understand this:

http://www.amazon.com/AMD-HDZ955FBGMBOX-Phenom-Edition-3-2GHz/dp/B002TQYUAE

Cinebench 4.72 for $160 new..5 years ago


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113359


Cinebench 3.63 for $190 new..2014

Personally I don't call that progress.
Floating point units used is 4 vs 8 since the bench is non avx also the fpu is pretty weak

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You're missing the point, AMD itself provides a better deal, even on the same FM2+ platform. Get an Athlon 760K and a Radeon HD 7770 for the same price of an A10-7850K and you get much better gaming performance right out of the box. The cost of the platform is the same as the Athlon fits in either the FM2 or FM2+ socket. You don't need to wait for Mantle to justify the price either, but you will get it when it comes too. Best of both worlds. Oh, and the IPC gains you mention are negated by the lower stock clocks.
For gaming dual graphics may very well perform well beyond them in gaming for the same price since the floating point calculations will almost entirely be done on the cpu.
Edited by maarten12100 - 1/15/14 at 7:20am
post #382 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You're missing the point, AMD itself provides a better deal, even on the same FM2+ platform. Get an Athlon 760K and a Radeon HD 7770 for the same price of an A10-7850K and you get much better gaming performance right out of the box. The cost of the platform is the same as the Athlon fits in either the FM2 or FM2+ socket. You don't need to wait for Mantle to justify the price either, but you will get it when it comes too. Best of both worlds. Oh, and the IPC gains you mention are negated by the lower stock clocks.

Good thing AMD unlocked the processor so you can overclock and get that processor speed back, no?

Actually you're not getting the best of both worlds, you're shooting yourself in the foot going for the Athlon. You're missing out on the significant part of what makes the hUMA/HSA so desirable, and why AMD is basically throwing so much weight behind it. That shared memory pool. Efficiency, and speed, things that the Athlon won't be able to match, throw on a R7 260X, And the APU is free to focus on even more things like trueaudio, physics, and what ever else mantle and hUMA want to throw at the additional FPU's, while the graphics card chugs away at rendering 3d graphics and only 3d graphics. It will perform MUCH better even on a dollar per dollar comparison that you're making.

The only caveat is that none of this happens with out HSA making it easier for developers to code for. Which will take time to get the drivers, and the API's, and what ever else is needed.

According to AMD marketing speak, Kaveri is a 12 core processor that needs the software support to unlock eight of it's cores.
post #383 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuckley View Post

Understand this:

http://www.amazon.com/AMD-HDZ955FBGMBOX-Phenom-Edition-3-2GHz/dp/B002TQYUAE

Cinebench 4.72 for $160 new..5 years ago


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113359


Cinebench 3.63 for $190 new..2014

Personally I don't call that progress.

did you take into account that you have 4 fetches vs 2 fetches 50% more fetches

192Kbytes of instruction cache in total for Kaveri vs 256Kbytes for phenom II x4 33% more instruction cache.

kaveri is more a I3 competitor since it's 2 fecthes and 4 threads.

what your doing up there would be like comparing I3 haswell to core 2 quad.
    
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post #384 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You're missing the point, AMD itself provides a better deal, even on the same FM2+ platform. Get an Athlon 760K and a Radeon HD 7770 for the same price of an A10-7850K and you get much better gaming performance right out of the box. The cost of the platform is the same as the Athlon fits in either the FM2 or FM2+ socket. You don't need to wait for Mantle to justify the price either, but you will get it when it comes too. Best of both worlds. Oh, and the IPC gains you mention are negated by the lower stock clocks.

Even an A8 7600 is a solid upgrade for the people he describes, though.
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post #385 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You're missing the point, AMD itself provides a better deal, even on the same FM2+ platform. Get an Athlon 760K and a Radeon HD 7770 for the same price of an A10-7850K and you get much better gaming performance right out of the box. The cost of the platform is the same as the Athlon fits in either the FM2 or FM2+ socket. You don't need to wait for Mantle to justify the price either, but you will get it when it comes too. Best of both worlds. Oh, and the IPC gains you mention are negated by the lower stock clocks.
For gaming dual graphics may very well perform well beyond them in gaming for the same price since the floating point calculations will almost entirely be done on the cpu.

?

If you're going to be buying an R7 240 or R7 250 (An AMD Rep here on the forum told us these are the only ones they recommend, and WCCFTech says DualGraphics mode only works with discrete cards with DDR3), then you have to add the cost of that card to the price of the APU. What I said is that an Athlon 760K + HD 7770 costs the same as an A10-7850K, so your math doesn't add up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCrow View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You're missing the point, AMD itself provides a better deal, even on the same FM2+ platform. Get an Athlon 760K and a Radeon HD 7770 for the same price of an A10-7850K and you get much better gaming performance right out of the box. The cost of the platform is the same as the Athlon fits in either the FM2 or FM2+ socket. You don't need to wait for Mantle to justify the price either, but you will get it when it comes too. Best of both worlds. Oh, and the IPC gains you mention are negated by the lower stock clocks.

Good thing AMD unlocked the processor so you can overclock and get that processor speed back, no?

Actually you're not getting the best of both worlds, you're shooting yourself in the foot going for the Athlon. You're missing out on the significant part of what makes the hUMA/HSA so desirable, and why AMD is basically throwing so much weight behind it. That shared memory pool. Efficiency, and speed, things that the Athlon won't be able to match, throw on a R7 260X, And the APU is free to focus on even more things like trueaudio, physics, and what ever else mantle and hUMA want to throw at the additional FPU's, while the graphics card chugs away at rendering 3d graphics and only 3d graphics. It will perform MUCH better even on a dollar per dollar comparison that you're making.

The only caveat is that none of this happens with out HSA making it easier for developers to code for. Which will take time to get the drivers, and the API's, and what ever else is needed.

According to AMD marketing speak, Kaveri is a 12 core processor that needs the software support to unlock eight of it's cores.


Your example doesn't work. The 260X has TrueAudio, thus the APU won't be needed for that, so save the cash and buy the Athlon 760K and the Radeon R7 260X.

The 260X also has Mantle.

Also, that shared memory pool of DDR3 you speak of is a hindrance to the GPU. We can talk again when APUs are working with DDR4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You're missing the point, AMD itself provides a better deal, even on the same FM2+ platform. Get an Athlon 760K and a Radeon HD 7770 for the same price of an A10-7850K and you get much better gaming performance right out of the box. The cost of the platform is the same as the Athlon fits in either the FM2 or FM2+ socket. You don't need to wait for Mantle to justify the price either, but you will get it when it comes too. Best of both worlds. Oh, and the IPC gains you mention are negated by the lower stock clocks.

Even an A8 7600 is a solid upgrade for the people he describes, though.

What are we talking about then ? Sure, I agree with that, but that's not we are talking about. We are talking about what you can get for the money.
Edited by tpi2007 - 1/15/14 at 8:06am
 
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post #386 of 1004

For transcode price/performance, the $119 AMD Kaveri A8-7600 should be nicknamed "kan't touch this"

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_a8_7600_apu_review,13.html
Edited by ximage - 1/15/14 at 7:57am
post #387 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCrow View Post

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

The top three graphics cards in use according to steams survey, are Intel HD2000, 3000, and 4000. Followed by three older nvidia cards. I'd rather game on a APU then have to suffer through an intel integrated graphics use ever again. Even most of the CPU's in use are dual core.

Yea. Not like the majority of laptops with discreet graphics have switchable graphics these days, all of which would show up as Intel IGPs on that survey.

Also you miss the point about people who game on IGPs.

1. Most of the IGPs mentioned there are on laptops, which is not part of the question here. So the majority of those HD4000s and HD3000s would be laptops, and most (if not all) with switchable graphics.
2. Look at the next two IGP entries. HD2000 and HD2500 way down low. Both used on low end sub $120 CPUs. People who use those for gaming clearly DO NOT have the budget for anything better. And since these APUs are a lot more expensive, they wouldn't be helping.
post #388 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post


What are we talking about then ? Sure, I agree with that, but that's not we are talking about. We are talking about what you can get for the money.

Tech report concluded that today's APU are in a peculiar position because their graphics aren't enough for more than casual gaming and the like. I'd say they couldn't be further from the truth-that might have been the case with Llano but not with Kaveri. A haswell i3 for example as a standalone unit is more imbalanced.It has too much "CPU" and too little "iGPU" for all those that play COD on their laptops or prebuilt systems that have an i7-4770 paired with a no-name PSU and without discreet graphics. Or those that have an i5-4570 and a GT610 and feel happy because they have a 2Gb video card.

Sure, if you want to get maximum gaming ability and you know what you are doing you won't get a A10-7850k, definitely not right now,you'll pair an i3 or an athlon with any GDDR5 discreet. But against a A8 7600 which is cheap, the image is blurred. As for all the non-savvy masses, that buy generic PCs to game, kaveri is almost a godsend compared to the hordes of intel HD solutions and crappy discreet 6450/GT620 or whatnot. This is is a lightweight CPU, mostly irrelevant for the OCN crowd, though.
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post #389 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

?

If you're going to be buying an R7 240 or R7 250 (An AMD Rep here on the forum told us these are the only ones they recommend, and WCCFTech says DualGraphics mode only works with discrete cards with DDR3), then you have to add the cost of that card to the price of the APU. What I said is that an Athlon 760K + HD 7770 costs the same as an A10-7850K, so your math doesn't add up.
.
A A8-7600 + r7 240 would match or stomp it in games and cost a bit less while using significantly less power.
post #390 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post


You example doesn't work. The 260X has TrueAudio, thus the APU won't be needed for that, so save the cash and buy the Athlon 760K and the Radeon R7 260X.

The 260X also has Mantle.

Also, that shared memory pool of DDR3 you speak of is a hindrance to the GPU. We can talk again when APUs are working with DDR4.

I suggest you read up more on what HSA and hUMA is all about. If you take the processing cycles for trueaudio and physics away and let the discrete GPU render nothing but 3d graphics, how much of an improvement would you say that has on the discrete GPU performance? How about overall performance?

Also once you throw in a discrete GPU that's not for dualgraphics, memory bandwidth between the CPU and the on die GPU becomes less of a hindrance as it's not relying on the GPU portion to do much, if any rendering at all. DDR4 will be a nice improvement no matter what though.

You're not quite understanding what the on die GPU is really supposed to be used for with a discrete GPU. And why the software is so important to really take full advantage of these processors, it's why everything you're seeing now looks like crap.
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