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post #391 of 1004
these APU's are just for HTPC's where space is tight or SFF desktop PC's where only average gaming is needed on the cheap, the rest of the stuff most people do with PC's these will work equally rapid with. Only top end gaming graphics, video editing or compression, etc.. is where a faster CPU is needed. Although if a dedicated card is not much more and you can offload tasks then your back to square one. Ergo these are great for servers / HTPC with a spot of mild gaming, that is all. otherwise stick to a decent i3 or low end i5 and buy a 260 or 760
post #392 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

?

If you're going to be buying an R7 240 or R7 250 (An AMD Rep here on the forum told us these are the only ones they recommend, and WCCFTech says DualGraphics mode only works with discrete cards with DDR3), then you have to add the cost of that card to the price of the APU. What I said is that an Athlon 760K + HD 7770 costs the same as an A10-7850K, so your math doesn't add up.
.
A A8-7600 + r7 240 would match or stomp it in games and cost a bit less while using significantly less power.

Are you sure about the performance part ?

384 Stream Processors on the APU + 320 on the GPU = 704 with less than 100% scaling and higher frame times versus 640 on the HD 7770

720 Mhz on the APU, 730 Mhz on the GPU versus 1 Ghz on the HD 7770

128-bit memory bus, DDR3 2133 Mhz on the APU, 1800 Mhz on the GPU versus 128-bit 4500 Mhz GDDR5 on the HD 7770.

I know which combination I'd prefer. Unless you plan to upgrade later and are ok with the issue of driver profile availability, then an Athlon 760K with an HD 7770 is the better choice.

I agree that the A8-7600 is a good proposition, especially when set to a 45w TDP envelope, but on its own. On the 65w TDP envelope it's still good, ironically, and contrary to the A10-7850K, the price (if it's the same) is the thing that saves it, because it doesn't really seem to up the bar compared to the A10-6700.

If you're going to be spending more money, there are other options.
Edited by tpi2007 - 1/15/14 at 8:25am
 
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post #393 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboner1 View Post

Honestly these only sound good for laptops, where you only care about getting 30- 45 fps on medium- low settings for the casual gamer in my opinion. The savings really aren't there when you compare it to a i3 and cheap mobo when really you need at least a decent motherboard with the older AMD cpu/apu's because of heat issues. I want to do a AMD build, i really do but If i was doing a budget build i would still go with a i3 and 7770 at this stage sadly.

i3+7770 is about the worst decision one can make when the A8-7600 is available for less than the price of an i3 itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You're missing the point, AMD itself provides a better deal, even on the same FM2+ platform. Get an Athlon 760K and a Radeon HD 7770 for the same price of an A10-7850K and you get much better gaming performance right out of the box. The cost of the platform is the same as the Athlon fits in either the FM2 or FM2+ socket. You don't need to wait for Mantle to justify the price either, but you will get it when it comes too. Best of both worlds. Oh, and the IPC gains you mention are negated by the lower stock clocks.
This i can completely agree with.A quad Athlon+7750 would be quite a bit better than A8-7600 and also a bit faster than A10-7850k.So A8 in itself or Athlon+7750 are MUCH better options than i3+7770.However a cheap Pentium+7750 i can agree on.If you note my build its also a pentium+7750.I was originally going to go for A8-3850 but i figured out that since most games rarely take advantage of more than 2 cores i went the discrete route instead and its such a sweet gaming PC at 1440*900 40-45fps in most new games at medium settings.
    
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post #394 of 1004
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Originally Posted by OldCrow View Post

Good thing AMD unlocked the processor so you can overclock and get that processor speed back, no?

Actually you're not getting the best of both worlds, you're shooting yourself in the foot going for the Athlon. You're missing out on the significant part of what makes the hUMA/HSA so desirable, and why AMD is basically throwing so much weight behind it. That shared memory pool. Efficiency, and speed, things that the Athlon won't be able to match, throw on a R7 260X, And the APU is free to focus on even more things like trueaudio, physics, and what ever else mantle and hUMA want to throw at the additional FPU's, while the graphics card chugs away at rendering 3d graphics and only 3d graphics. It will perform MUCH better even on a dollar per dollar comparison that you're making.

The only caveat is that none of this happens with out HSA making it easier for developers to code for. Which will take time to get the drivers, and the API's, and what ever else is needed.

According to AMD marketing speak, Kaveri is a 12 core processor that needs the software support to unlock eight of it's cores.

Just to be clear with everyone here.

When they say "12 core" they mean 2 module/4 core CPU + 8 Compute Unit (CU) GPU. Since the GPU will be eventually handling more task with HSA ,hUMA, & Mantle, they can get away as classifying this as a "12 core" APU.

So to reiterate, the term "Core" no longer describes JUST the CPU half but also the GPU half.
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post #395 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Are you sure about the performance part ?

384 Stream Processors on the APU + 320 on the GPU = 704 with less than 100% scaling and higher frame times versus 640 on the HD 7770

720 Mhz on the APU, 730 Mhz on the GPU versus 1 Ghz on the HD 7770

128-bit memory bus, DDR3 2133 Mhz on the APU, 1800 Mhz on the GPU versus 128-bit 4500 Mhz GDDR5 on the HD 7770.

I know which combination I'd prefer. Unless you plan to upgrade later and are ok with the issue of driver profile availability, then an Athlon 760K with an HD 7770 is the better choice.

I agree that the A8-7600 is a good proposition, especially when set to a 45w TDP envelope, but on its own. On the 65w TDP envelope it's still good, ironically, and contrary to the A10-7850K, the price (if it's the same) is the thing that saves it, because it doesn't really seem to up the bar compared to the A10-6700.

If you're going to be spending more money, there are other options.
I want to be honest here i really have fallen in love with the A8-7600 as i don't overclock but the only issue is it would be a downgrade from my current PC.I would really love to do an A8-7600+R7 240 but again dual graphics is not what it could have been.AMD still is far from perfecting dual graphics. I was also thinking A6-3500 LLano+6450 back in 2012 but even that would have been inferior to my current build.Do you think its worth trying out A8-7600+R7 240 ?
Quote:
Just to be clear with everyone here.

When they say "12 core" they mean 2 module/4 core CPU + 8 Compute Unit (CU) GPU. Since the GPU will be eventually handling more task with HSA ,hUMA, & Mantle, they can get away as classifying this as a "12 core" APU.

So to reiterate, the term "Core" no longer describes JUST the CPU half but also the GPU half
WOW so the A8-7600 is a 12 core APU !!?? That is so cool AMD rocks..And Intel is still stuck on dual core CPU.LOL.
Edited by mohit9206 - 1/15/14 at 8:35am
    
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post #396 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Well 3 years ago is too long anyway, can't expect me to remember stuff like that lol.

I actually had an E-350 netbook... still works, though it's slow as hell.

Neither did I LOL, CPU World to the rescue.
   
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post #397 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohit9206 View Post

i3+7770 is about the worst decision one can make when the A8-7600 is available for less than the price of an i3 itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You're missing the point, AMD itself provides a better deal, even on the same FM2+ platform. Get an Athlon 760K and a Radeon HD 7770 for the same price of an A10-7850K and you get much better gaming performance right out of the box. The cost of the platform is the same as the Athlon fits in either the FM2 or FM2+ socket. You don't need to wait for Mantle to justify the price either, but you will get it when it comes too. Best of both worlds. Oh, and the IPC gains you mention are negated by the lower stock clocks.
This i can completely agree with.A quad Athlon+7750 would be quite a bit better than A8-7600 and also a bit faster than A10-7850k.So A8 in itself or Athlon+7750 are MUCH better options than i3+7770.However a cheap Pentium+7750 i can agree on.If you note my build its also a pentium+7750.I was originally going to go for A8-3850 but i figured out that since most games rarely take advantage of more than 2 cores i went the discrete route instead and its such a sweet gaming PC at 1440*900 40-45fps in most new games at medium settings.


In my post I mentioned the HD 7770, you can actually buy it for $100, it's a better buy right now than the HD 7750.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opty165 View Post

Just to be clear with everyone here.

When they say "12 core" they mean 2 module/4 core CPU + 8 Compute Unit (CU) GPU. Since the GPU will be eventually handling more task with HSA ,hUMA, & Mantle, they can get away as classifying this as a "12 core" APU.

So to reiterate, the term "Core" no longer describes JUST the CPU half but also the GPU half.

The lengths they go to with marketing...

With discrete GPUs they always mention the number of Stream Processors, nobody thinks about in how many clusters that number is in, but now they decide to focus on that to try to show they have more cores than Intel in a traditional kind of way. Trouble is, according to their logic, I'd argue you have to do the same for the CPU. Hence it's not 4+8, but 2+8, since you have two CPUs per module, which is akin to a cluster on a GPU. They could just say their top of the line APU has 516 processors, that would be more accurate, but then people would know immediately what they were doing by adding the two, instead of thinking like many people on a thread that got locked yesterday that AMD was actually going to release a 12 core CPU.
Edited by tpi2007 - 1/15/14 at 8:41am
 
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post #398 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by opty165 View Post

Just to be clear with everyone here.

When they say "12 core" they mean 2 module/4 core CPU + 8 Compute Unit (CU) GPU. Since the GPU will be eventually handling more task with HSA ,hUMA, & Mantle, they can get away as classifying this as a "12 core" APU.

So to reiterate, the term "Core" no longer describes JUST the CPU half but also the GPU half.

It seems to me that people are having a difficult time accepting the fact that AMD's plan was all about merging CPU "cores" with GPU "cores" into one unified space, and developing software to fully take advantage of it. So, in practice AMD is rewriting the definition of "core" when it applies to a computer's "central processing unit". Too many people are bashing AMD because they are AMD, but are being blinded by their personal bias to really see the potential of this product. AMD has gone down this path because of what Intel has done in the software market by flooding it with Intel compilers that have bias against any other non-Intel CPU, hence Mantle and huma. Then add in the fact that AMD has combined the "traditional" CPU and GPU cores to "process" information specifically suited to specific types of tasks, the end result is a more efficiency. AMD is solving the same problem with a different solution, and I can see that they are actually on the front of innovation rather than Intel.
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post #399 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obakemono View Post

It seems to me that people are having a difficult time accepting the fact that AMD's plan was all about merging CPU "cores" with GPU "cores" into one unified space, and developing software to fully take advantage of it. So, in practice AMD is rewriting the definition of "core" when it applies to a computer's "central processing unit". Too many people are bashing AMD because they are AMD, but are being blinded by their personal bias to really see the potential of this product. AMD has gone down this path because of what Intel has done in the software market by flooding it with Intel compilers that have bias against any other non-Intel CPU, hence Mantle and huma. Then add in the fact that AMD has combined the "traditional" CPU and GPU cores to "process" information specifically suited to specific types of tasks, the end result is a more efficiency. AMD is solving the same problem with a different solution, and I can see that they are actually on the front of innovation rather than Intel.

Yes exactly, to everything above biggrin.gif

The bashing of this APU is completely misplaced I think. Most people in this thread and many others simply do not understand the technical aspect of why this is a great innovation. There is a lot of misinformed people on HSA, hUMA, XDMA, & Mantle.
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post #400 of 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obakemono View Post

It seems to me that people are having a difficult time accepting the fact that AMD's plan was all about merging CPU "cores" with GPU "cores" into one unified space, and developing software to fully take advantage of it. So, in practice AMD is rewriting the definition of "core" when it applies to a computer's "central processing unit". Too many people are bashing AMD because they are AMD, but are being blinded by their personal bias to really see the potential of this product. AMD has gone down this path because of what Intel has done in the software market by flooding it with Intel compilers that have bias against any other non-Intel CPU, hence Mantle and huma. Then add in the fact that AMD has combined the "traditional" CPU and GPU cores to "process" information specifically suited to specific types of tasks, the end result is a more efficiency. AMD is solving the same problem with a different solution, and I can see that they are actually on the front of innovation rather than Intel.

After reading this, the APU seems more appealing.
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