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[Various] AMD Mantle release (BF4) - Page 115

post #1141 of 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

I would with with Mantle there should not be CPU differences but its still the same difference.

I must agree. All this non-sense talk about 8350 being downclocked and still being gpu bound. what a blatant lie

a10-7850k and 8350 difference still big with mantle, I mean is 7850K slower than 8350@2Ghz?

what mantle did was make their apu-s from completely non-usable with dGPU-s to mediocre
Edited by nitrubbb - 2/9/14 at 11:44am
post #1142 of 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrubbb View Post

I must agree. All this non-sense talk about 8350 being downclocked and still being gpu bound. what a blatant lie

a10-7850k and 8350 difference big huge with mantle, I mean is 7850K slower than 8350@2Ghz?

what mantle did was make their apu-s from completely non-usable with dGPU-s to mediocre

The only one talking nonsense here is you. That "underclocked to 2ghz" thing was specific to that one game that was tested, it was obvious that it wouldn't apply to every game. Besides, why the hell would anyone perma-downclock their CPU to 2ghz anyway?

Mantle isn't rocket-science: it removes CPU bottlenecks. Not every game is constantly CPU-bound and some don't even need a beefy CPU in DX. So obviously not every game will get a 50% boost with it.
post #1143 of 1174
There is so many benchmark that show from great to meh results with mantle I'm not too sure I got my head around it. It's pretty exciting for those who still play Battlefield 4 and got amd gpus I guess, too bad it's just 1 out of 20 000 games and only work on like 10% of the gpus on the market :/ Hope it pick up steam and more people adopt it or else it will become like physx and become a moot point real quick.
post #1144 of 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingduqc View Post

There is so many benchmark that show from great to meh results with mantle I'm not too sure I got my head around it. It's pretty exciting for those who still play Battlefield 4 and got amd gpus I guess, too bad it's just 1 out of 20 000 games and only work on like 10% of the gpus on the market :/ Hope it pick up steam and more people adopt it or else it will become like physx and become a moot point real quick.

It effectively removes CPU bound situations; Mantle is a huge boon to those with lower end to middle of the road systems in the CPU market. Mantle has the potential to create a situation of no longer needing to buy a $350+ CPU, instead being able to buy a nice general use CPU, and dump that extra cash into a high end GPU or a couple of them. Of course this applies more widely as Mantle is adopted.

The end result to the gamer is that in Mantle supported titles, it provides a shift of money allocation when it comes to building or buying a PC. You can potentially shift $200 from the CPU and put it towards a GPU, which is a pretty big deal.
    
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post #1145 of 1174
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Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

It effectively removes CPU bound situations; Mantle is a huge boon to those with lower end to middle of the road systems in the CPU market. Mantle has the potential to create a situation of no longer needing to buy a $350+ CPU, instead being able to buy a nice general use CPU, and dump that extra cash into a high end GPU or a couple of them. Of course this applies more widely as Mantle is adopted.

The end result to the gamer is that in Mantle supported titles, it provides a shift of money allocation when it comes to building or buying a PC. You can potentially shift $200 from the CPU and put it towards a GPU, which is a pretty big deal.

I agree it shifts money from cpu to gpu and in the end result is the same. you have a crappy cpu+epic gpu you will get same framerates than more powerful cpu and weaker gpu would
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

The only one talking nonsense here is you. That "underclocked to 2ghz" thing was specific to that one game that was tested, it was obvious that it wouldn't apply to every game. Besides, why the hell would anyone perma-downclock their CPU to 2ghz anyway?

Mantle isn't rocket-science: it removes CPU bottlenecks. Not every game is constantly CPU-bound and some don't even need a beefy CPU in DX. So obviously not every game will get a 50% boost with it.

my logic tells my if it removes cpu bottlenecks then a game should run the same with different cpus but same gpu but reality is far from it



i3! using DX better than 7850K with mantle, pfffff
Edited by nitrubbb - 2/9/14 at 11:54am
post #1146 of 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrubbb View Post

I agree it shifts money from cpu to gpu and in the end result is the same. you have a ****ty cpu+epic gpu you will get same framerates than more powerful cpu and weaker gpu would
my logic tells my if it removes cpu bottlenecks then a game should run the same with different cpus but same gpu but reality is far from it

It isn't the same in Mantle titles.

In a Mantle title instead of having a high end CPU and a high end GPU, you can have a lower end CPU and a high end GPU, but get similar results in both. Again, in Mantle titles the CPU becomes very little concern to the performance of the game, putting all the weight of that performance on the GPU.

Example, and slightly made-up numbers:

Player A wants 60 FPS in "Super Awesome Game" DX 11

He spends $350 on CPU and $400 on GPU, grand total $750 to reach his goal.

Player B wants 60 FPS in "Super Awesome Game" Mantle

He spends $110 on CPU and $400 on GPU, grand total $510 to reach his goal.

Both of the players hit the 60 FPS in the same game, once just did it in a more cost effective way. The trade off being he will suffer in non Mantle games.
    
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post #1147 of 1174
my point is more like this (also made up numbers xD)

Mantle: 250$ cpu + 300$ gpu = 150$ cpu + 400$ gpu

It always makes more sense to get option 1 since it will perform the same on mantle enambled games and much better overall+non-mantle games
post #1148 of 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrubbb View Post

my point is more like this (also made up numbers xD)

Mantle: 250$ cpu + 300$ gpu = 150$ cpu + 400$ gpu

It always makes more sense to get option 1 since it will perform the same on mantle enambled games and much better overall+non-mantle games

it really depends on platform and choice one makes. one thing that is slightly forgotten is that upper end cpus also are paired generally with upper end motherboards thus increasing overall cost again. Also gpu debate is also slightly more finicky as for the moment(will likely change later) 290 and 290x based gpu's receive more of a performance boost than the older gcn 1.0 based gpus. the change in gpu choice can also affect vram amount and mem bus size which has their own effects on performance as well. the debate on mantle really is case by case specific, what it does is put more value to some builds(Laptops will likely benefit the most, the 750k, older Phenom II''s, 6300 and 8320's on sale become very valuable).

once you get into non mantle games, it then becomes a game of multithreaded vs IPC gain for the lower end budget scheme(6300/i3 and lower price point). the i3 will generally perform well on games sporadically, but may potentially falter if a game utilizes multiple threads, or if background processes require threads(e.g streaming has been increasingly more popular). So its really up for debate how popular thread count vs IPC is for the newly current gen consoles are(6 on xbone, 7 on ps4) will affect which cpu will gain more support overtime.
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post #1149 of 1174
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Originally Posted by nitrubbb View Post

I agree it shifts money from cpu to gpu and in the end result is the same. you have a crappy cpu+epic gpu you will get same framerates than more powerful cpu and weaker gpu would
my logic tells my if it removes cpu bottlenecks then a game should run the same with different cpus but same gpu but reality is far from it



i3! using DX better than 7850K with mantle, pfffff

They always test the single-player for some dumb reason, which everyone knows isn't that CPU-bound. This means that if the CPU bottleneck (however little of it there is) is removed, then the game becomes GPU-bound. And even in DX, an Intel CPU will push the GPU better than an AMD CPU will, thus even in Mantle the Intel CPU can grant more performance than the AMD can.

Just because a CPU bottleneck is removed doesn't mean the game isn't using the CPU at all, or that a more efficient architecture will perform on parity with a less efficient one.

Edit: If this were an actual multiplayer BF4 bench, the results would be completely different. Single-player BF3 and BF4 benches are a joke and I dunno why these so-called "professionals" keep doing them.
post #1150 of 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

They always test the single-player for some dumb reason, which everyone knows isn't that CPU-bound. This means that if the CPU bottleneck (however little of it there is) is removed, then the game becomes GPU-bound. And even in DX, an Intel CPU will push the GPU better than an AMD CPU will, thus even in Mantle the Intel CPU can grant more performance than the AMD can.

Just because a CPU bottleneck is removed doesn't mean the game isn't using the CPU at all, or that a more efficient architecture will perform on parity with a less efficient one.

Edit: If this were an actual multiplayer BF4 bench, the results would be completely different. Single-player BF3 and BF4 benches are a joke and I dunno why these so-called "professionals" keep doing them.

I don't know what that bench is but unless BF4 is using AVX2 or something (haswell has it) there is no way such an i3 to have 40% higher average framerate than a A10-7850k, on single player or multiplayer under DX, on ultra preset even (4xMSAA, remember). SP would be heavily GPU bound and neither A10 nor i3 can maintain this high framerate on true MP anyway. 1080p ultra, no way.
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