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[Various] AMD Mantle release (BF4) - Page 59

post #581 of 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Well this is just wrong. Of course if software has imposed limits it is the cause of said limitation. Not the CPU itself.

And the developers of that software will tell you that the API is the bottleneck. And the creators of that API will tell you that the problem is that lazy bastard of Stewie at human resources for not providing more and better software engineers. Then Stewie would tell you that he has 5 sons and wants a daughter badly and became obsessed so he doesn't pay much attention to work. In the end the bottleneck is someone's unborn daughter, way to go.

It doesn't work like that.

You need something done at your CPU to keep your GPU working. If that isn't happening you have a CPU bottleneck. Name it software, IPC, uarch, frequency, amount of physical or logical cores, caches or whatever you want. Break it down all you want until you get a daughter for Stewie.

In a year or whenever TFSM disposes way better CPUs will be launched making that crappy code run good enough to keep your GPUs fed. Then your CPU bottleneck will be gone.

Same happens with Mantle. In the third example with the 290X CF it is removing the CPU bottleneck.
post #582 of 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenFaux View Post

3770k is Ivy-Bridge and the 3820 is Sandy Bridge. Unless your running multiple GPUs the 3770k is going to be faster all other things being equal.
well i plan to run 780 in sli and therefore i plan 2011 socket and the question is if the 40pci lanes help remove cpu bottleneck in case of a 8 threaded cpu in comparison with 1150 socket with 16 pci lanes

thank you

we shall see what mantle will bring, i am already looking forward to some unreal tripple quad test systems from our friends here on ocn smile.gif

best
revro
post #583 of 1174
to revro:

When it comes to CPU bottlenecks in the means of game engines there are 4 separate factors:

a) Performance of the CPU core(s)
b) Bandwidth of memory and effective R/W speeds.
c) Bandwidth of NB/QPI or whatever is interconnecting CPU with RAM and PCI-E
d) Software limitation (in our case DirectX overheads)

One of these is usually the slowest in the chain.

So when are you going to upgrade the CPU you can get mixed results depending on the engine. Also its specific for each engine. Its also expected that future games, will be more resource-consuming and thus chance for hitting CPU bottleneck will be higher.

So picking up new CPU is not only a matter if you are going to run multiple GPUs or not. However its matter of fact that once you will hit CPU bottlenecks. Sooner or later since game developers want to make games more realistic, and that require more polygons, more objects etc.

Edit:
Yes, more PCI-E lanes, are good method for reducing those effects, however even modern DX based engines have trouble with mutliple rendering threads (even now majority of engines can barely handle up to 2 draw call threads). As far I know, Mantle is going to solve this.
Edited by Offler - 1/31/14 at 4:28am
post #584 of 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by revro View Post

well i plan to run 780 in sli and therefore i plan 2011 socket and the question is if the 40pci lanes help remove cpu bottleneck in case of a 8 threaded cpu in comparison with 1150 socket with 16 pci lanes

thank you

we shall see what mantle will bring, i am already looking forward to some unreal tripple quad test systems from our friends here on ocn smile.gif

best
revro

PCI-E lanes do not remove CPU bottlenecks. I can't even begin to think why you might begin to think that. If it did, the FX-8350 would be as fast as the 3770k in gaming, as the 990FX has 32 PCI-E 2.0 lanes compared to the 16 PCI-E 3.0 of the 3770k. What additional lanes do is remove bandwidth bottlenecks. Current single GPU cards either don't need more than 8 PCI-E 3.0 lanes, or are barely restricted by it (5% or less).

A CPU bottleneck occurs when the CPU cannot process the data fast enough to keep the GPU(s) working near full capacity. In games with a limited number of primary threads, it doesn't matter how many cores you have because it's limited by those primary threads.

Additionally, the 3770k is a 4-core 8-thread CPU, exactly like the 3820.
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post #585 of 1174
To Tsumi:
It depends on number of GPU cores, and number of rendering threads.

In case you have 2 gpus and 2 rendering threads this may cause trouble if one PCI-E slot is "primary" directly connected to CPU, while other is connected via SB.

There is performance loss, not much significant (about 5 percent).

In this case CPU bottleneck occurs, but its only a secondary effect. Root cause is usually fact that two cards on two different buses cant be perfectly synchronized.

CPU bottleneck can occur as secondary effect also in case when memory is too slow. CPU utilization will be under 100% and still profiling SW will tell you that rendering of scene was CPU bound, but not because of lacking HW resources on CPU side, but because of memory.
post #586 of 1174
Quote:
As mentioned in our older article from Thursday, AMD discovered a major bug with its Catalyst 14.2 driver at the last minute, which threw a wrench in the works at the company. The driver was originally slated to come out in sync with DICE' update of Battlefield 4 on Thursday. AMD now tells us that their teams have been working overnight to fix the driver, and should have their next status update for us by mid-afternoon EST (New York time), later today. That update doesn't necessarily mean a driver release at that point in time, and so AMD might be forced to label it Catalyst 14.2 beta, keeping up with its calendar-based driver version naming. Catalyst 14.1 beta was expected to ship the first public distribution of Mantle, AMD's ambitious 3D graphics API to rival Direct3D and OpenGL.

AMD also mentioned a 24 hour exclusive period for press to evaluate the driver before public release, so it looks like your download will be at least 36 hours away.

TechPowerUp
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post #587 of 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by revro View Post

well i plan to run 780 in sli and therefore i plan 2011 socket and the question is if the 40pci lanes help remove cpu bottleneck in case of a 8 threaded cpu in comparison with 1150 socket with 16 pci lanes

thank you

we shall see what mantle will bring, i am already looking forward to some unreal tripple quad test systems from our friends here on ocn smile.gif

best
revro

As other people have said, the PCIe lanes have very little to do with CPU bottlenecks. However I'd like to point out that the effects of running 780s in SLI @ 8x as opposed to 16x on PCIe 3 is negligible. In fact you could get a SKT1150/1155 motherboard with a PLX and chip and still manage dual 16x lanes for the GPUs (with a 1-2% performance overhead). The only real reason I could suggest that you go SKT2011 is if you wanted to run 3+ card in SLI/Crossfire or you needed the extra CPU boost from the Six-Core chips. Since you don't seem to be doing either of those things you would save money and perhaps even have better performance buying a 3770k/4770k.
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post #588 of 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post


TechPowerUp

Hopefully we'll get an early leak sometime today, but I'm not holding my breath on that either.

 

Oh well, I guess we'll get it when we get it. ;)

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post #589 of 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenFaux View Post

As other people have said, the PCIe lanes have very little to do with CPU bottlenecks. However I'd like to point out that the effects of running 780s in SLI @ 8x as opposed to 16x on PCIe 3 is negligible. In fact you could get a SKT1150/1155 motherboard with a PLX and chip and still manage dual 16x lanes for the GPUs (with a 1-2% performance overhead). The only real reason I could suggest that you go SKT2011 is if you wanted to run 3+ card in SLI/Crossfire or you needed the extra CPU boost from the Six-Core chips. Since you don't seem to be doing either of those things you would save money and perhaps even have better performance buying a 3770k/4770k.
well i am actually going for 5930k, i was just asking if there was a problem in case of 1150/1155 with 2 top cards
post #590 of 1174
I have no problem with AMD pulling the plug on the Mantle release. Let them at least get it in working order, and not deliver a mess to the public.

I don't care if it takes another month - get it fixed. Glad they caught the bug. thumb.gif
 
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