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Shrink Volume or Create Partition?

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
While installing the OS I created a separate partition, about 9-10% of total volume of the ssd. I can't seem to find a clear answer if doing that is the same as shrinking the volume, as you would with samsung magician software, in terms of ssd life/performance.

If it is the same, do I have to format that partition or just leave it as is?

Samsung EVO 840.

Thanks!
OnAir
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post #2 of 9
No, it's not the same thing. When you shrink the partition, you are leaving part of the drive space "unpartitioned." You have created a separate partition, not left 9-10% unpartitioned, which is what is needed. Instead of formatting that 10% partition, it should be deleted, if you are looking to accomplish the same thing as having shrunk your system partition.
post #3 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inons View Post

While installing the OS I created a separate partition, about 9-10% of total volume of the ssd. I can't seem to find a clear answer if doing that is the same as shrinking the volume, as you would with samsung magician software, in terms of ssd life/performance.

If it is the same, do I have to format that partition or just leave it as is?

Samsung EVO 840.

Unpartitioned is better but as long as you keep that partition empty, it's nearly as good. SSD controllers can make use of all free NAND for SSD operation and maintenance.
Garnet
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Garnet
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Lucifiel
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Metatron
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CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i5-3450S Intel DQ77KB Corsair 16GB DDR3 1600 SO-DIMM Samsung 830 256GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Crucial m4 256 mSATA Samsung 840 500GB Intel BXHTS1155LP Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
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G.SKILL Phoenix Pro 120GB Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Silverstone ST45SF 450W Silverstone Sugo SG05B 
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post #4 of 9
Thread Starter 
Can't use that partition because it hasn't been formatted, so it would stay empty.

If I were to just delete the partition and shrink the original volume I could do that with disk management/samsung magician.

edit: Scratch that. Deleted partition and it now says unallocated, as in it isn't associated at all with the primary c: partition. It is just unused space.
Edited by Inons - 2/3/14 at 6:10pm
OnAir
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post #5 of 9
Creating OP space before you install Windows or by shrinking the volume afterwards makes little difference. Doing it afterwards has the chance that some of the space was used but not reset by TRIM instructions. Creating a volume in that space and then deleting it should cause it to receive TRIM instructions so it will be all completely reset.
post #6 of 9
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsec View Post

Creating OP space before you install Windows or by shrinking the volume afterwards makes little difference. Doing it afterwards has the chance that some of the space was used but not reset by TRIM instructions. Creating a volume in that space and then deleting it should cause it to receive TRIM instructions so it will be all completely reset.

Ah, I see. Now that the 9-10% partition was deleted and is now completely unallocated, Samsung Magician recognizes it as over-provisioned (OP) space. Great! Thanks! thumb.gif
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post #7 of 9
Is there a benefit or detriment to partitioning a 250 GB Samsung Evo SSD into 2 partitions, C: for Windows OS, and D: for a permanent memory swap file and the temp folder?

I was always told that it is best to keep the windows memory swap file and the temp folder is a separate drive. I know there is no speed benefit to keeping the swap file and the temp folder in a separate partition in the same SSD drive, but at least by keeping a fixed swap file in a separate partition and letting the temp folder write random files in the separate partition would minimize disk fragmentation of the C: drive. I know SSD does not need to be defragmented, but wouldn't minimizing fragmentation make the SSD perform faster since sequential reads and writes are faster? So if I keep the temp folder in the separate partition D:, then the OS in drive C: would get less fragmented since all the temp folder activities are occurring on the D: drive.

Also, does it make sense that is it better to keep a permanent swap file (i.e. min size = max size) in a SSD? I know a permanent swap file prevents the fragmentation of the swap file, but since the content of the swap file changes even when it stays the same size, does it make any difference in a SSD drive?

Finally, I was told that partitioning a drive makes it slower because before writing or reading the drive, it must go back and forth to the 2 partition tables, making it do it twice. Is this true for the SSD also, or does it only apply to spinning disk hard drives?

Once more final question: is partitioning an SSD into drice C: and drive D: for windows just as bad as partitioning an SSD for dual boot C: drive for windows OS and the second half of the SSD for hackintosh Mac OS X? I mean, if the SSD is partitioned but each partition has a different OS, would each partition function as a single SSD since it can not see the other partition and it thinks it is the only/single partition, or it makes no difference?


THank you for any info and help. Just waiting to get my first 250 GB Samsung EVO SSD drive, and trying to figure out how to set it up for best/efficient use. Also thinking of making the SSD dual boot for my hackintosh. Before I got purchased the SSD, I had windows OS in one drive and the HAckintosh OS X in a 2nd physically separate drive. Wondering if I should put windows in the SSD and keep the Hackintosh on the old hard drive, or partition the SSD in half and dual boot Windows and Hackintosh OS X from the same SSD.
post #8 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob00 View Post

Is there a benefit or detriment to partitioning a 250 GB Samsung Evo SSD into 2 partitions, C: for Windows OS, and D: for a permanent memory swap file and the temp folder?

I was always told that it is best to keep the windows memory swap file and the temp folder is a separate drive. I know there is no speed benefit to keeping the swap file and the temp folder in a separate partition in the same SSD drive, but at least by keeping a fixed swap file in a separate partition and letting the temp folder write random files in the separate partition would minimize disk fragmentation of the C: drive. I know SSD does not need to be defragmented, but wouldn't minimizing fragmentation make the SSD perform faster since sequential reads and writes are faster? So if I keep the temp folder in the separate partition D:, then the OS in drive C: would get less fragmented since all the temp folder activities are occurring on the D: drive.

The concept of fragmentation in HDDs does not apply to SSDs. Note I did not just say that SSDs should not be de-fragmented, which is true, but the way that HDDs and SSDs operate internally is so different that file fragmentation does not occur in SSDs in the way it does in HDDs. If and when a file in a SSD is stored in multiple areas, that is done purposely by the SSD for other reasons such as wear leveling. Any performance reduction caused by a fragmented file on a SSD would be so minimal it is not worth considering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob00 View Post

Also, does it make sense that is it better to keep a permanent swap file (i.e. min size = max size) in a SSD? I know a permanent swap file prevents the fragmentation of the swap file, but since the content of the swap file changes even when it stays the same size, does it make any difference in a SSD drive?

This again is different on a SSD. A file written to a SSD is not guaranteed to always be in one location and stay there as on a HDD. It's actually in most cases a certainty that a file on a SSD will not remain in one location.

Another thing you need to consider is our view or idea of a file as you described it, is called the Logical View of a file. That is a simplified and convenient way of picturing a file or other objects that exist in computer hardware and software. There is also the Physical View of a file or other object, which is the actual way a file is stored on a HDD or SSD. The Physical View is rarely if ever similar to the Logical View. The only thing that is constant about a swap or page file is the amount of space allocated for it, its location may change and there is no guarantee that a page file is contiguous, uninterrupted storage space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob00 View Post

Finally, I was told that partitioning a drive makes it slower because before writing or reading the drive, it must go back and forth to the 2 partition tables, making it do it twice. Is this true for the SSD also, or does it only apply to spinning disk hard drives?

That idea makes no sense, the double reading of the partition tables. Once again, partitions on a drive are a file system logical view, and the physical implementation of it does not resemble the logical view. Also, once the file system knows it is working with a specific partition, why does it need to check the partition table of a different partition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob00 View Post

Once more final question: is partitioning an SSD into drice C: and drive D: for windows just as bad as partitioning an SSD for dual boot C: drive for windows OS and the second half of the SSD for hackintosh Mac OS X? I mean, if the SSD is partitioned but each partition has a different OS, would each partition function as a single SSD since it can not see the other partition and it thinks it is the only/single partition, or it makes no difference?


THank you for any info and help. Just waiting to get my first 250 GB Samsung EVO SSD drive, and trying to figure out how to set it up for best/efficient use. Also thinking of making the SSD dual boot for my hackintosh. Before I got purchased the SSD, I had windows OS in one drive and the HAckintosh OS X in a 2nd physically separate drive. Wondering if I should put windows in the SSD and keep the Hackintosh on the old hard drive, or partition the SSD in half and dual boot Windows and Hackintosh OS X from the same SSD.

What is bad about partitioning a SSD for dual boot or into two partitions? How are those two things different?

Partitions are again a logical view of the file system, a SSD has no knowledge of partitions or different OSs or dual booting. All it knows how to do is take a request to read or write data via a SATA instruction, translate the address that the file system gives it into the SSD's internal storage structure, and either give the file system the data it has requested, or write the data it has received. A storage drive does not boot or run an OS, the CPU and DRAM memory does that, by executing programs stored on a drive.
post #9 of 9
Thank you for pointing out that logical partition is not the same as actual physical partition. Coming from spinning HD, it has been difficult to understand how SSD work. Can't tell what things I learned to be most effective in HD applies to SSD.

If I understand you correctly, there is no need to worry about fragmentation when using a SSD. Accordingly, there is little performance cost to partitioning or the location of swap file, etc.

Since you seem to know about these things, can I ask you what are the important things to keep in mind when using a SSD in Windows 7 and OS X Mavericks?

Finally, I also heard conflicting opinions regarding where I should put the memory swap file and temp files. Some say to put them in the spinning HD to minimize wear on the SSD and because the performance gain is minimal. Others say that modern SSD like the Samsung EVO 840 can last for 5 years before it wears out, so it is better to put the swap file and temp folder in the SSD for the extra performance gain. what do you think?

thanks you for your help.
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