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post #1161 of 2142
Quote:
Originally Posted by neurotix View Post

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSX_%27Reality_Synthesizer%27

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenos_(graphics_chip)

The PS3 GPU is basically a Nvidia 7800 GTX and the Xbox 360 GPU is basically an ATI Radeon X1800. (Both of these are so ancient lol).

The RSX and Cell does 778 million polygons/sec (peak) and the Xenos and Xenon (CPU) does 500 million polygons/sec (peak).

RSX is 242 GFLOPS and Xenos was around 212 GFLOPS (GPU only for each of these)

So, actually the PS3 is generally more powerful. However, the problem with this is obviously the wonky, arcane PowerPC architecture of the Cell processor. The PS3 also has a hypervisor, not sure if the 360 does or not, and the PS3 has many more complicated chips to program for in addition to the Cell. So in practice, this is why the games looked more or less the same even though the PS3 was more powerful. Because coding them to run on Cell was so much more difficult, this explains why a lot of games ran better on the 360. Either way, since I have both and a lot of games, it doesn't much matter to me. And of course you probably know all this stuff already, except maybe the specifics of the GPUs, so don't think I'm trying to patronize you. smile.gif

If you want my personal opinion, I'd take the PS3 over the 360 any day if I had to choose. It acts as my Blu Ray player and a damn good one at that. (I just got into buying used Blu Ray movies and have started a small collection.) Moreover, I use Plex Media Server for my anime and the PS3 is nothing short of an incredible streaming media box. I can even stretch old 4:3 anime out to 16:9 (sacrilege I know) on the PS3 and I can't do that on my Chromecast with Plex on my phone. I can also use the PS3 to get games on my PSPs, and for some functions of the PSP (like my PSP Go) I have to use the PS3 to sync a controller to the PSP Go to use it with Bluetooth. Aside from that, all the JRPGs are on PS3... but honestly it gets used as a streaming media player more than anything. thumb.gif

I'm getting so tired out from all the graphics comparisons between consoles. Or maybe I'm just old. I don't know. Anyway, you also have to look at the technology used to make the games. 360 is Direct3D while PS3 is OpenGL. And maybe the software development kit (SDK) for 360 was far easier to deal with and just higher quality. Being able to use visual studio which a lot of developers were already accustomed to using freed up more time work on textures. So-far-as-I-know, the developers should have a level of abstraction between them and the hardware. If the console maker (Sony/MS) do their jobs correctly, the developers shouldn't have to worry about the complexity of the processor or optimizing for the GPU. The SDK (and associated debuggers) should take care of most if not all of that. Personally I'd take barely noticeably worse resolution and textures if it meant much more stable frame rates (and/or higher sound quality).

None that SDK stuff is supposed to matter to the customers though. We're just supposed to play and enjoy the game.

I remember 20+ years ago with the genesis vs snes battles. Or rather toward the end of that little competition there was earthworm jim released for both consoles. I didn't play the game on both platforms. If you hold up screenshots of the two versions the genesis one really looks "grainy" and...lower resolution/saturated/whatever. But (if I'm remembering correctly) the genesis one seemed to have smoother animation, or more frames of animation. I don't know if one version actually played appreciably better than the other. I just remember that being one of the last big versus comparisons between those two consoles at the end of their respective life spans. I remember a lot of comments about the impressive animation in alladin for genesis as well. There was a version of that on snes but it was a different developer so the two weren't compared directly (other than "genesis: triple-A, SNES: meh"). I just remember a lot of comments on impressive animation on genesis of the day. So maybe genesis had a smaller color pallet, fewer colors on-screen at any one time and far inferior sound quality but that doesn't mean the genesis version of a game played any worse. And 20 years later it doesn't matter much, they both look like "retro 16-bit".

Also, I've recently boxed up my 360 and stuck it in the closet. Still regularly use my PS3. Could have gone the other way though, I just never had a HDD for the 360 so I couldn't play any games and there isn't anything the 360 can do that the PS3 can't do (and the ps3 is a blu-ray player) so 360 is put away. It's strange I have my atari 5200, that i haven't hooked up/played in at least 17 years, still sitting on a shelf while the 360 is collecting dust in its box in the closet and I'm thinking of selling it.

I do sometimes play random games on the PS3 and I was trying PS1 games at one time but those 4:3 PS1 games look terrible on an HD TV.

This was probably too long and rambe-ly (sorry).
 
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post #1162 of 2142
That was the other weird difference between the two. The 360 could "install" games to the hard drive but you were supposed to use a Microsoft hard drive. While the ps3 couldn't do that but had a user upgradable hard drive. And you're right subassy I rather have consistent frame rate over prettier graphics.
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post #1163 of 2142
I think the 360 install thing came out of the capacity limitations of DVDs. While the PS3 had blu-ray so no game really had to span multiple discs, the 360, at least towards the end, started to run into that limit so they came up with the install thing. That or the single 360 disc was just a storage for a some kind of hyper compressed file system that extracted/installed to the HDD. Anything to avoid multiple discs that bring up that capacity limit. I'm just assuming MS must have emphasized that to third parties. I think there's was some kind of challenge around that for GTA IV. Almost positive I remember hearing or reading about the challenge of fitting that game on to one DVD.
 
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post #1164 of 2142
That might be why they did it. They both have digital versions for games so i guess it was pretty much already there, unless that came after the install option. When GTA V came out you were not supposed to install both disks to the hard drive, something with how the game ran from two different locations caused issues. Also the hard drive has a faster read than the disks do.
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post #1165 of 2142
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by subassy View Post

I'm getting so tired out from all the graphics comparisons between consoles. Or maybe I'm just old. I don't know. Anyway, you also have to look at the technology used to make the games. 360 is Direct3D while PS3 is OpenGL. And maybe the software development kit (SDK) for 360 was far easier to deal with and just higher quality. Being able to use visual studio which a lot of developers were already accustomed to using freed up more time work on textures. So-far-as-I-know, the developers should have a level of abstraction between them and the hardware. If the console maker (Sony/MS) do their jobs correctly, the developers shouldn't have to worry about the complexity of the processor or optimizing for the GPU. The SDK (and associated debuggers) should take care of most if not all of that. Personally I'd take barely noticeably worse resolution and textures if it meant much more stable frame rates (and/or higher sound quality).

This is a really good point, DirectX vs OpenGL, and another reason why the games on PS3 didn't look or play better. I totally forgot about this.
Quote:


I remember 20+ years ago with the genesis vs snes battles. Or rather toward the end of that little competition there was earthworm jim released for both consoles. I didn't play the game on both platforms. If you hold up screenshots of the two versions the genesis one really looks "grainy" and...lower resolution/saturated/whatever. But (if I'm remembering correctly) the genesis one seemed to have smoother animation, or more frames of animation. I don't know if one version actually played appreciably better than the other. I just remember that being one of the last big versus comparisons between those two consoles at the end of their respective life spans. I remember a lot of comments about the impressive animation in alladin for genesis as well. There was a version of that on snes but it was a different developer so the two weren't compared directly (other than "genesis: triple-A, SNES: meh"). I just remember a lot of comments on impressive animation on genesis of the day. So maybe genesis had a smaller color pallet, fewer colors on-screen at any one time and far inferior sound quality but that doesn't mean the genesis version of a game played any worse. And 20 years later it doesn't matter much, they both look like "retro 16-bit".

I, of course, remember SNES vs Genesis too. I had SNES, my best friend had SNES (and Final Fantasy II- this got me into RPGs), and another good friend had Genesis with Streets of Rage 2, Revenge of Shinobi and the excellent Phantasy Star II. I grew up with SNES and would choose it in a heartbeat over Genesis because it has some of the best RPGs ever made (Chrono Trigger, FF3, Secret of Mana...) However, Genesis is excellent for action games. Shinobi III is one of my favorite games of all time. As far as animation is concerned, again it depends on the game. I can't speak for Earthworm Jim because I never really liked it (rented it once for SNES, hated it). However, the version of Aladdin on Genesis was far superior and had fantastic animation. The color palette has work arounds in programming anyway, you can actually display close to 128 colors on screen at once on the Genesis instead of 64 by using a rendering mode that gives more than one shade of a certain color (something like that). Just look at games like Crusader of Centy, Phantasy Star IV, Gunstar Heroes for examples of this. Gunstar Heroes looks just as good as the later SNES releases and even has scaling and rotation, which the Genesis doesn't do in hardware.
Quote:
Also, I've recently boxed up my 360 and stuck it in the closet. Still regularly use my PS3. Could have gone the other way though, I just never had a HDD for the 360 so I couldn't play any games and there isn't anything the 360 can do that the PS3 can't do (and the ps3 is a blu-ray player) so 360 is put away. It's strange I have my atari 5200, that i haven't hooked up/played in at least 17 years, still sitting on a shelf while the 360 is collecting dust in its box in the closet and I'm thinking of selling it.

I do sometimes play random games on the PS3 and I was trying PS1 games at one time but those 4:3 PS1 games look terrible on an HD TV.

My 360 is a 250GB slim. I got it with one controller (a shiny red one!) for around $100. My most played game is probably Espgaluda 2 (Cave shooter). I'm not the biggest fan of Western action games and that's mostly what the 360 is for, though I'm learning to like them. It really depends on what genres of games you play. There's a lot of import Cave shooters for it. Deathsmiles was actually released here and it's really fun and cheap. I also have the Guardian Heroes remake, Hard Corps Uprising and a few other arcade games. Last night I tried a demo of a game called Phantom Breaker Battle Grounds. I liked it so much I bought it as well as the DLC character, fricken Makise Kurisu from Steins;Gate (I'm a huge fan of that show). Anyway Phantom Breaker is very similar to Scott Pilgrim Vs The World The Game, it's a retro style beat em up with 8-bit graphics and music. Except Phantom Breaker has chibi anime girls fighting. I highly recommend this one to everyone here with a 360 if you like beat em ups.

Oh yeah, at one point The Witcher 2 was being given away for free for 360 so I have it, but have never even played it.

Still, the 360 isn't for everyone, until recently mine didn't get used very much.
Quote:
This was probably too long and rambe-ly (sorry).

I'll always reply to you (maybe not to everything). You're fine. I know how it is because I tend to type a lot too. Now send me my games~ smile.gif
post #1166 of 2142
Picked up a couple things today...Spyro Enter the Dragon Fly and Dragon Quest VIII for PS2, and Fable Lost Chapters PC...all CIB. Already had Dragon Quest VIII, but not complete. Was $7.50, $12.50, and $3.99.
post #1167 of 2142
Quote:
Originally Posted by neurotix View Post

I'll always reply to you (maybe not to everything). You're fine. I know how it is because I tend to type a lot too. Now send me my games~ smile.gif

Hope you got room for 100 random/lose CDs tongue.gif

I'm just kidding. Like I'd really give you my beloved collection of epsn ncaa baskball titles worth less than a penny and scratched too badly to play. As if.
 
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post #1168 of 2142
Quote:
Originally Posted by subassy View Post

Hope you got room for 100 random/lose CDs tongue.gif

I'm just kidding. Like I'd really give you my beloved collection of epsn ncaa baskball titles worth less than a penny and scratched too badly to play. As if.

Sell them as vintage rare coasters on eBay for lots of money?
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post #1169 of 2142
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron_Henderson View Post

Picked up a couple things today...Spyro Enter the Dragon Fly and Dragon Quest VIII for PS2, and Fable Lost Chapters PC...all CIB. Already had Dragon Quest VIII, but not complete. Was $7.50, $12.50, and $3.99.

Dragon Quest VIII, naice. I'm down with that. I still need to play it someday but...I have...so...much...to play. It's overwhelming. I loved Dragon Quest IX for DS, it might even be my favorite DS game. (Though the fan translation of Soma Bringer was really, really good... try this game sometime if you have a DS. It's like a cell shaded anime Diablo clone for DS. Made by the same company that makes the Xenoblade games. You'll need a flash cart for it though.)

Spyro is cool too but I'll admit, I think I only played the demo of the first one back in the day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by subassy View Post

Hope you got room for 100 random/lose CDs tongue.gif

I'm just kidding. Like I'd really give you my beloved collection of epsn ncaa baskball titles worth less than a penny and scratched too badly to play. As if.

Big big LOL @ that when I read it. Thanks. Surely I want your scratched ESPN NCAA bassetball. smile.gif
post #1170 of 2142
Kind of at a loss about which "JRPG" to play next...Kingdom Hearts 2, Final Fantasy XII, Dragon Quest VIII, or Tales of the Abyss...I was thinking Kingdom Hearts, honestly redface.gif
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