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Is anyone planning to preorder the Intel Core i7 "5960X" (Haswell E)? - Page 3

post #21 of 44
No, you're not missing anything. Haswell-E will be to the market exactly what Ivy Bridge-E and Sandy Bridge-E were -- performance platforms for people with bigger wallets and more desire/need for an 8C processor.

How much faster will it be than IB-E? Well, you do have the two extra cores, so you're looking at 16% right off the bat for highly-threaded applications. Applications with high memory bandwidth requirements will see another boost from the DDR4 interface, say 2-3% over high speed DDR3 (2133/2400).

We can get MOST of this performance right now, but it costs $2199 and it's called a Xeon E5-2187 V2.

I don't think Haswell-E is going to turn the gaming market upside down, but then again - that's not it's intended market. It's going to be a good lower-cost option for somebody that wants 8C/16T and doesn't need ECC/Registered memory support.

Greg
post #22 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxontas View Post

In what way exactly will the new platform benefit gamers?

ANANDTECH ran an article about memory scaling on Haswell, wherein they tested 3GHz DDR3 RAM, and found that there is not a single game which is memory bottlenecked in the market currently. Am I missing something?

I might as well add that I am sitting here with my 4770k running at stock and playing games just fine. At present I do not see a need to overclock the 4770k. If a 4770k can run every game in the market at stock just fine, I don't see how the Haswell extreme might benefit me.

You claim it "will benefit gamers". I am a gamer. How exactly will it benefit me?

I have read that games (though this does not happen in the majority of them) can actually get a plus in fps when a RAM with a higher clock speed and/or less modules are used. However, I as far as I can remember, I only read this in a printed magazine (which is called PC Games Hardware, but it is not an English magazine), you might be able to find it on the internet too, though. In this magazine, it was shown in benchmarks (multiple times in multiple issues) that this "effect" could increase the fps of games in very diverse numbers, in some games it was only around 4 fps, in others it was around 10 fps.
But again, similar benchmarks might be on the internet too.

I would say that it depends on how one defines if a games can be "played just fine", for me personally it would probably be the minimum fps value I can achieve at a certain resolution. For me, this value should never (not in any situation, except from ones that can hardly be avoided, for example, if data has to be loaded) go below the refresh rate of my monitor. This is not the case for my monitor currently, but this refresh rate could not be the "usual" 60 Hz, but for example double this rate, 120 Hz, or maybe even 144 Hz (for reference, I am using a monitor with a resolution of 1920x1200 and a refresh rate of 60 Hz at the moment). Then, I would need about double the power.

But, and this actually annoys me quite a bit at the moment, I have read in many benchmarks that games that are not very well optimized for mutiple threads, mostly older games (and those games unfortunately do not even have to be that old, basically most games which can use only 4 threads or less), are displayed with the highest fps when the cpu you are using, the 4770K, is being used. Nothing against your choice of cpu, but I am just saying that games should be made to use at least 8 threads (which your cpu has, too), which even most of the very recently released games do not do.
post #23 of 44
I won't be pre-ordering as I can barely scrape the cash together to get the 5960x and stores usually inflate pre-order prices. I do plan on buying a 5960x shortly after launch though.
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post #24 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by amay200 View Post

I won't be pre-ordering as I can barely scrape the cash together to get the 5960x and stores usually inflate pre-order prices. I do plan on buying a 5960x shortly after launch though.

 

Tis the wonders of having a Microcenter near me. Never have to deal with those inflated pre-order prices on Intel CPUs :P

post #25 of 44
Most stores in my area don't even allow hardware to be pre-ordered so I would have to go to questionable internet sites to get it. I will be getting one though. Likely as soon as they are available. I've never been rich enough to buy Intel flagship processors (AMD is a different story - got a 8350 @ launch for 189.99)
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post #26 of 44
Quote:
In what way exactly will the new platform benefit gamers?

ANANDTECH ran an article about memory scaling on Haswell, wherein they tested 3GHz DDR3 RAM, and found that there is not a single game which is memory bottlenecked in the market currently. Am I missing something?

I might as well add that I am sitting here with my 4770k running at stock and playing games just fine. At present I do not see a need to overclock the 4770k. If a 4770k can run every game in the market at stock just fine, I don't see how the Haswell extreme might benefit me.

You claim it "will benefit gamers". I am a gamer. How exactly will it benefit me?

A stock clock 4770k isn't enough for everyone / every game. Games like WoW are inefficient CPU hogs and will eat whatever you can throw at them CPU wise. Only bummer is it won't take advantage of all those cores in a 5960x... but it does love an overclocked 3570k/4670k/3770k/4770k etc.
post #27 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by GravityKnight View Post

A stock clock 4770k isn't enough for everyone / every game. Games like WoW are inefficient CPU hogs and will eat whatever you can throw at them CPU wise. .

I don't agree.

I play WoW at server Darksorrow EU, and not only is the 4770k at stock enough to play WoW, but recently I found no use for its turbo mode (@3.9 GHz) and I have disabled it only playing at stock.

Not only that but, in addition, my ASUS motherboard features an energy conservation software called EPU, which automatically underclocks the CPU. Apparently I am spending a substantial chunk of my online WoW time playing with my 4770k underclocked at 1.6 GHz or so. There is absolutely no difference in performance.

After all, World of Warcraft is a 2004 game and its engine is based on Warcraft III:Reign of Chaos, a 2002 game.
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post #28 of 44
WoW framerates are based heavily on cpu performance.. This isn't an opinion, it's fact. Turn everything to ultra, highest res you can, get in a highly populated area (AV when everyones together, big raid if your into that, weekly celeastial boss might even be enough etc) and watch the framerates.... A fx4300 to 3570k was a massive fps jump on a 7950, and overclocking the 3570 was good for another 15fps... Going from a 7950 to a gtx770 was about 3-5fps.

Read any benchmarks / wow forums etc about this if you don't believe me. Stock clock speed (or less) may be enough for you, but it will run better ( more fps) overclocked... Mine at 1440p isn't enough at stock clock speeds ( and the difference between my 3570k and your 4770k at the same clock in WoW is not very much)
post #29 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by GravityKnight View Post

WoW framerates are based heavily on cpu performance.. This isn't an opinion, it's fact. Turn everything to ultra, highest res you can, get in a highly populated area (AV when everyones together, big raid if your into that, weekly celeastial boss might even be enough etc) and watch the framerates.... A fx4300 to 3570k was a massive fps jump on a 7950, and overclocking the 3570 was good for another 15fps... Going from a 7950 to a gtx770 was about 3-5fps.

Read any benchmarks / wow forums etc about this if you don't believe me. Stock clock speed (or less) may be enough for you, but it will run better ( more fps) overclocked... Mine at 1440p isn't enough at stock clock speeds ( and the difference between my 3570k and your 4770k at the same clock in WoW is not very much)

I forgot to say I am playing at 1920X1080, ULTRA.

I don't understand why a game will run better if it runs with more FPS. The human eye cannot discern more than 60 FPS. For me, if it runs w/o lag and no freezes, it is fine. Personally, I have got my FPS capped at 33 FPS, and it is more than fine for excellent WoW 25 man raid performance.'

BTW, the graphical demands of WoW are so low, that it does not even stress my GTX 580 which also runs WoW 25% underclocked.
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post #30 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxontas View Post


I forgot to say I am playing at 1920X1080, ULTRA.

I don't understand why a game will run better if it runs with more FPS. The human eye cannot discern more than 60 FPS. For me, if it runs w/o lag and no freezes, it is fine. Personally, I have got my FPS capped at 33 FPS, and it is more than fine for excellent WoW 25 man raid performance.'

BTW, the graphical demands of WoW are so low, that it does not even stress my GTX 580 which also runs WoW 25% underclocked.

 

Whaaaat.........? The human eye is capable of EASILY discerning far more than 60 fps. In fact, there really is no maximum to the fps that your eyes can discern. To say there is a maximum fps that they human eye can discern is just flat out uninformed, and its a myth.

 

And 33 fps in a WoW raid is just awful to limit yourself to. Besides the usual cons of low fps (blurring, stuttering, you name it). You aren't receiving information as fast, which means your reactions are going to be slower overall, which means you die to fire.

 

And WoW is no longer the same game that it used to be. Its graphical demands have gone up significantly over the years. You say its low, but......you are aiming at 33 fps.........which that in and of itself is incredibly low of a fps target. To run WoW at a good framerate (60fps+) constant, it requires fairly solid hardware.

 

 

And also you are incredibly wrong regarding WoW and CPUs. All calculations are done client side before being sent to the servers. Which means you are limited to how fast your CPU can do those calculations. And the way a CPU works, is calculations are executed linearly. It must finish the first calculation before starting on the second. And you have hundred thousands upon hundred thousands of these calculations happening every second. Even more so in 25 man raids. You have damage calculations, addons communicating with each other (more data that needs to be processed), etc.

 

By down-clocking your CPU in WoW, you are incredibly limiting yourself, both to do well in the game, and for actual performance. Especially since WoW renders on the first thread, and barely offloads work to other CPU threads.

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