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[pcgameshardware] BF4 : Graphics cards benchmarks - Mantle vs Direct3D, R9 290X vsGTX 780 Ti Catalyst 14.1 BETA 1.7 - Page 18

post #171 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prophet4NO1 View Post

How is software that does not support Mantel getting Mantel numbers? That's like getting OpenGL from a DX only engine. And the numbers are not lining up with what I have been reading. From what I have seen fast CPU's like the 3770K see little to no performance gains in Mantel. But slower chips like the i3 and APU series get some nice gains. This all looks like bull ****.

nonsense. Who cares what you have been reading, i have a 3770k with a 280x, i am telling you there is substantial difference. Someone that's not lazy really needs to get some numbers on here. Why is nobody posting their benchmark comparisons?
post #172 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prophet4NO1 View Post

How is software that does not support Mantel getting Mantel numbers? That's like getting OpenGL from a DX only engine. And the numbers are not lining up with what I have been reading. From what I have seen fast CPU's like the 3770K see little to no performance gains in Mantel. But slower chips like the i3 and APU series get some nice gains. This all looks like bull ****.

I am sorry my friend you have been misinformed.

A 3770k at stock or overclocked is not fast enough to not bottleneck a 290x.

Get it now?
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post #173 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

...and the problem is that as I said, other popular 780Tis wouldn't reach that number. You are asking for MAX possible boost - Anandtech on a reference 780Ti merely hit 980Mhz. Yes,it was reference,not a WF but this test brings in general 780Ti up agaisnt 290X. All 290X models will hit 1000Mhz in that game (even reference in a very loud profile), that cannot be said for the Ti as anand showed. The 780Ti is capable for more, but for whatever reason, stock reference it won't do that. Get over it already.

Proof of all reference 290Xs keeping 1000MHz on BF4 at all times? As we all know the differences between retail reference 290X boards are pretty huge. Some cards do better than others. PCPer, Legitreviews etc. have shown that press samples =/= all retail samples.

I have not seen any BF4 frequency graphs for the 290X (only thing out there is the 1000MHz number over at anand but it's clear that he got a really good sample since others have shown bigger frequncy changes in uber mode) however it's clear that in a lot of games a 290X does droop under 1000MHz even at uber settings:



Even 290s fluctuate in BF4:



I'm sure that not all 290Xs do this however low boosting 780Tis are also very rare. Just like low boosting Titans. You had to have extremely bad luck back in the day to get a 960MHz Titan just like you have to have bad luck these days to get a 1006MHz 780Ti or a 290X that can't keep up the frequency even in uber mode.

However if you don't like the max boost number I gave you, how about pcgameshardware just using whatever max boost their card has? If they're really unlucky it might be 1006MHz however it's more likely something above 1040MHz.

Or how about just letting both cards run without locking the frequency. That way the 780Ti will stay at its max boost anyway.

And to top it all off this argument becomes irrelevant one OCs are taken into account since all GK110 cards clock considerably higher on average than Hawaii ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by felon View Post

nonsense. Who cares what you have been reading, i have a 3770k with a 280x, i am telling you there is substantial difference. Someone that's not lazy really needs to get some numbers on here. Why is nobody posting their benchmark comparisons?

95% of the fps mantle gives comes from removing CPU bottlenecks.

Even AMD knows this, their own testing showed an increase of 2% with a 3960X and a R7 260X.
Edited by Alatar - 2/20/14 at 6:06pm
 
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post #174 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

95% of the fps mantle gives comes from removing CPU bottlenecks.

Even AMD knows this, their own testing showed an increase of 2% with a 3960X and a R7 260X.

How does my 3770 bottleneck when its not even being utilized over 30%. You are REALLY underplaying this. You will be proven wrong eventually when more members come out with benchmarks.
and plus i'm not sure how the r7s perform, so i can't comment on that. It could not be optimized towards the r7s for now. I have experience with r9s only
post #175 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Proof of all reference 290Xs keeping 1000MHz on BF4 at all times? As we all know the differences between retail reference 290X boards are pretty huge. Some cards do better than others. PCPer, Legitreviews etc. have shown that press samples =/= all retail samples.

I have not seen any BF4 frequency graphs for the 290X (only thing out there is the 1000MHz number over at anand but it's clear that he got a really good sample since others have shown bigger frequncy changes in uber mode) however it's clear that in a lot of games a 290X does droop under 1000MHz even at uber settings:



Even 290s fluctuate in BF4:



I'm sure that not all 290Xs do this however low boosting 780Tis are also very rare. Just like low boosting Titans. You had to have extremely bad luck back in the day to get a 960MHz Titan just like you have to have bad luck these days to get a 1006MHz 780Ti or a 290X that can't keep up the frequency even in uber mode.

However if you don't like the max boost number I gave you, how about pcgameshardware just using whatever max boost their card has? If they're really unlucky it might be 1006MHz however it's more likely something above 1040MHz.

Or how about just letting both cards run without locking the frequency. That way the 780Ti will stay at its max boost anyway.

And to top it all off this argument becomes irrelevant one OCs are taken into account since all GK110 cards clock considerably higher on average than Hawaii ones.
95% of the fps mantle gives comes from removing CPU bottlenecks.

Even AMD knows this, their own testing showed an increase of 2% with a 3960X and a R7 260X.


Wow and the boost argument continues lol

A $1000 cpu showing 2% from mantle with a low end gpu is great if you ask me. thumb.gif
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post #176 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Useless (at least for most enthusiasts here),

-780Ti is locked to minimum boost (NV DX drivers being better with CPU overhead shows here btw since a 900mhz Ti is beating a 1000mhz 290X in BF4 of all things)

-1080p only (these cards are meant for higher resolutions)

-Stock last generation CPU
There is always something wrong when AMD wins lachen.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane2207 View Post

You're all wrong. The graphs are accurate, it's just that the 290X with Mantle frequently registered 0fps due to the epic frame spikes on those beta drivers wink.gif

/s
Those spikes are gone with the new update from Dice, completely smooth now
Edited by th3illusiveman - 2/20/14 at 6:18pm
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post #177 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Proof of all reference 290Xs keeping 1000MHz on BF4 at all times? As we all know the differences between retail reference 290X boards are pretty huge. Some cards do better than others. PCPer, Legitreviews etc. have shown that press samples =/= all retail samples.

I have not seen any BF4 frequency graphs for the 290X (only thing out there is the 1000MHz number over at anand but it's clear that he got a really good sample since others have shown bigger frequncy changes in uber mode) however it's clear that in a lot of games a 290X does droop under 1000MHz even at uber settings:



Even 290s fluctuate in BF4:



I'm sure that not all 290Xs do this however low boosting 780Tis are also very rare. Just like low boosting Titans. You had to have extremely bad luck back in the day to get a 960MHz Titan just like you have to have bad luck these days to get a 1006MHz 780Ti or a 290X that can't keep up the frequency even in uber mode.

However if you don't like the max boost number I gave you, how about pcgameshardware just using whatever max boost their card has? If they're really unlucky it might be 1006MHz however it's more likely something above 1040MHz.

Or how about just letting both cards run without locking the frequency. That way the 780Ti will stay at its max boost anyway.

And to top it all off this argument becomes irrelevant one OCs are taken into account since all GK110 cards clock considerably higher on average than Hawaii ones.
95% of the fps mantle gives comes from removing CPU bottlenecks.

Even AMD knows this, their own testing showed an increase of 2% with a 3960X and a R7 260X.
My r9-290x drops to about 930-950 range in BF4.
post #178 of 589
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post #179 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Proof of all reference 290Xs keeping 1000MHz on BF4 at all times? As we all know the differences between retail reference 290X boards are pretty huge. Some cards do better than others. PCPer, Legitreviews etc. have shown that press samples =/= all retail samples.

I have not seen any BF4 frequency graphs for the 290X (only thing out there is the 1000MHz number over at anand but it's clear that he got a really good sample since others have shown bigger frequncy changes in uber mode) however it's clear that in a lot of games a 290X does droop under 1000MHz even at uber settings:



Even 290s fluctuate in BF4:



I'm sure that not all 290Xs do this however low boosting 780Tis are also very rare. Just like low boosting Titans. You had to have extremely bad luck back in the day to get a 960MHz Titan just like you have to have bad luck these days to get a 1006MHz 780Ti or a 290X that can't keep up the frequency even in uber mode.

However if you don't like the max boost number I gave you, how about pcgameshardware just using whatever max boost their card has? If they're really unlucky it might be 1006MHz however it's more likely something above 1040MHz.

Again, PCGH is having an overclocked 780Ti sample yet again you ask for the boost of an overclocked card.And again, uber is merely 55% fan speed (in the case of 290 a straight 47%-even worse) , a noise/perf point AMD set for reference cards, set a profile for max performance regardless of fan speed and they all hit1000Mhz (although put it in an unventilated case or somewhere hot under load and it will throttle even at 100% I bet).

No stock 780Ti will boost @ BF4 at 1070 ( neither custom nor reference) from what I see (from you and others). All custom 290X @ stock will
(if they can do 1000+ steady like in all reviews, they will do just 1000 that's enough proof), though and odds are even reference ones stand a chance at very noisy levels (and I've pointed that from the get go-the noise). Whatever, this isn't going anywhere,at least you dropped the 1070 claim (or so it seems) I rest my case.
Edited by Kuivamaa - 2/20/14 at 6:28pm
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post #180 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by felon View Post

let's not get too cocky. What are you referring to by saying "history repeats itself", you're talking about the 8800gts (g80) era?
AMD did quite well with the 4000 series. The 4850 stood up to the g92 cards quite well. So not sure what "history" you are talking about. Nvidia is slacking, and it shows big time

Really, The G80 and G92 that NV made had AMD behind 2 whole Generations of their gpu and that's your come back.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I think point is made.
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