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[pcgameshardware] BF4 : Graphics cards benchmarks - Mantle vs Direct3D, R9 290X vsGTX 780 Ti Catalyst 14.1 BETA 1.7 - Page 39

post #381 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBestiaHumana View Post

I agree with you on that. But while the 2700k kicked the FX series in the back and has been great for 3 years, doesn't mean they are rendered useless just because Crysis 4 uses mantle.

You did ask how many gens would those i7 CPUs run without bottlenecking cards.

Bencher just posted a graph on his definition of bottleneck. 100fps vs 109 on a very conservative CPU clock. Let's face it, not every game will get mantle this year, i5 and i7 do a great job keeping up with gpus and more importantly do so with a million more titles. It all boils down to what games you play the most.
it is still very early stage to judge mantle since optimization will take years to mature. Most games these days have poor AI/physics which put very little use on CPU, But u should generally get the idea how much DirectX has been holding us back.

The sec Nvidia make their GPU on Nvidia's own metal API, or join mantle = DirectX will be obsolete. There is no reason to let Microsoft holding off the progress. I would hate to see low level API sweep back under the carpet because Nvidia decide not to make their GPU Low level API capable. (be it own metal API or mantle)
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post #382 of 589
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Originally Posted by bencher View Post

Yea I got the nerve to say lol.

It is a cpu bottleneck, the card was not used to it's full potential. And would the bottleneck would be even worse with a 780ti.

At any resolution a cpu bottleneck will be present.... especially in BF4. Also running multiple cards to get playable fps on 4k will present even more bottleneck LOL

You seem to don't know the meaning of "bottleneck".

Anything else?

The bag of corrections is still full.

So mantle eliminates the bottleneck 100%?

I've ran certain benchmarks with fx 8320, 2700K, 3770K , 3930K and 4930K. Guess what? The higher the frequency the higher the average frame rates on my Titans. Of course there's no CPU powerful enough not to bottleck The Bests GPUs out there. Tell us something we didn't know Sherlock.

I can get 9 extra fps easy by increasing the CPU frequency, and guess what on a lot of games. Not just the mantle ones, which at the moment is just one.
Edited by LaBestiaHumana - 2/22/14 at 8:55pm
post #383 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

I see you are still trying... Let me correct for the millionth time...

This says otherwise. Here is a $1000 cpu at 4.2ghz bottlenecking a single 290x.



I have an endless supply of corrections for you.

I dont understand what's going on in the graph?
Can't the cpu frequency increase be accounted for more fps to begin with? why are you claiming there to be a bottleneck. How do you know if the card is used to its fullest potential if you dont have the utilization data from the cpu and gpu...
post #384 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

I see you are still trying... Let me correct for the millionth time...

This says otherwise. Here is a $1000 cpu at 4.2ghz bottlenecking a single 290x.



I have an endless supply of corrections for you.

How can you say Mantle is eliminating a CPU bottleneck when the DirectX performance is the same at 2 Ghz and at 3 Ghz? If the CPU is bottlenecking that card, you'd see a gain with frequency as well. And gains don't have to be from eliminating CPU bottlenecks anyway, we routinely get gains from driver updates, and they aren't "eliminating CPU bottlenecks". Mantle is running better performance than DirectX in the bench, that's all that is showing.
post #385 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by felon View Post

I dont understand what's going on in the graph?
Can't the cpu frequency increase be accounted for more fps to begin with? why are you claiming there to be a bottleneck. How do you know if the card is used to its fullest potential if you dont have the utilization data from the cpu and gpu...

For example, in BF4 my gpu usage is always a 99% and I x fps.

If I add that $1000 cpu in my rig, I will get even more fps even though my gpu usage was at 99% on my AMD cpu.

What would you fault?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

How can you say Mantle is eliminating a CPU bottleneck when the DirectX performance is the same at 2 Ghz and at 3 Ghz? If the CPU is bottlenecking that card, you'd see a gain with frequency as well. And gains don't have to be from eliminating CPU bottlenecks anyway, we routinely get gains from driver updates, and they aren't "eliminating CPU bottlenecks". Mantle is running better performance than DirectX in the bench, that's all that is showing.

Ok so you get that in bold.

What was your concern again? confused.gif

And about the frequency, it simply shows how inefficient direct X is. That is all sir.

Also with 12threads + BF4 and DX... 2ghz cpu would be very playable.

I just used it as an example that gains for every type of system.
Edited by bencher - 2/22/14 at 8:58pm
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post #386 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

How can you say Mantle is eliminating a CPU bottleneck when the DirectX performance is the same at 2 Ghz and at 3 Ghz? If the CPU is bottlenecking that card, you'd see a gain with frequency as well. And gains don't have to be from eliminating CPU bottlenecks anyway, we routinely get gains from driver updates, and they aren't "eliminating CPU bottlenecks". Mantle is running better performance than DirectX in the bench, that's all that is showing.

Love how the graph shows that 4960x at 2ghz, but not at 4.9. Lmao

Can't wait for Bencher to correct me on that.
post #387 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

For example, in BF4 my gpu usage is always a 99% and I x fps.

If I add that $1000 cpu in my rig, I will get even more fps even though my gpu usage was at 99% on my AMD cpu.

What would you fault?
Ok so you get that in bold.

What was your concern again? confused.gif

And about the frequency, it simply shows how inefficient direct X is. That is all sir.

My concern is that you are claiming that Mantle eliminates a CPU bottleneck, and yet the performance is the same at both 2 and 3 GHz. Which would imply that there is no bottleneck. Otherwise increasing frequency should also improve performance. Just because performance is higher, doesn't necessarily mean it was because the CPU was bottlenecking. There are other optimizations that can be made to improve performance, as we see with nearly every driver update.

Edit: Actually, as I look at that graph again, I really don't get what they are trying to show. 4C/4T @ 2 GHz is the same as 2C/4T @ 3 GHz? And then they also show 6C/12T @ 4.2? All of which have roughly the same performance. Makes no sense. Doubling the frequency, adding 50% more cores and 200% more threads, and you get a measly 5% performance increase? Doesn't look like a CPU bottleneck to me.
Edited by Forceman - 2/22/14 at 9:04pm
post #388 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

My concern is that you are claiming that Mantle eliminates a CPU bottleneck, and yet the performance is the same at both 2 and 3 GHz. Which would imply that there is no bottleneck. Otherwise increasing frequency should also improve performance. Just because performance is higher, doesn't necessarily mean it was because the CPU was bottlenecking. There are other optimizations that can be made to improve performance, as we see with nearly every driver update.

You do see the type of cpu we are talking about right?

Try the same thing on cheaper i5 or i7 and there will be a different story.

Like I said I just used it to show there are gains to get on any cpu.

Also I am not saying mantle eliminates all cpu bottleneck. It doesn't.

Those optimizations you see in driver releases are "gpu" optimizations. We are talking about cpu here.
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post #389 of 589
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Originally Posted by bencher View Post

You do see the type of cpu we are talking about right?

Try the same thing on cheaper i5 or i7 and there will be a different story.

Like I said I just used it to show there are gains to get on any cpu.

Also I am not saying mantle eliminates all cpu bottleneck. It doesn't.

Those optimizations you see in driver releases are "gpu" optimizations. We are talking about cpu here.

Nuff said.
post #390 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

My concern is that you are claiming that Mantle eliminates a CPU bottleneck, and yet the performance is the same at both 2 and 3 GHz. Which would imply that there is no bottleneck. Otherwise increasing frequency should also improve performance. Just because performance is higher, doesn't necessarily mean it was because the CPU was bottlenecking. There are other optimizations that can be made to improve performance, as we see with nearly every driver update.

Edit: Actually, as I look at that graph again, I really don't get what they are trying to show. 4C/4T @ 2 GHz is the same as 2C/4T @ 3 GHz? And then they also show 6C/12T @ 4.2? All of which have roughly the same performance. Makes no sense. Doubling the frequency, adding 50% more cores and 200% more threads, and you get a measly 5% performance increase? Doesn't look like a CPU bottleneck to me.

Whoops misread the graph myself lol..

Uhmm if there is any amount of increase, that means something was holding that tiny bit of performance from coming out.

And what does bottleneck mean again?

Either way I was pointing to the 4.2ghz bench.
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