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[pcgameshardware] BF4 : Graphics cards benchmarks - Mantle vs Direct3D, R9 290X vsGTX 780 Ti Catalyst 14.1 BETA 1.7 - Page 40

post #391 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

You do see the type of cpu we are talking about right?

Try the same thing on cheaper i5 or i7 and there will be a different story.

Like I said I just used it to show there are gains to get on any cpu.

Also I am not saying mantle eliminates all cpu bottleneck. It doesn't.

Those optimizations you see in driver releases are "gpu" optimizations. We are talking about cpu here.

Running a 4960X at 3 GHz with only 2C/4T is basically making it an i3 (with the additional cache, of course). And it performs within 5% of the 6C/12T/4.2GHz version. But I think you are missing my main point, which is that just because performance is better on Mantle doesn't mean it is because Mantle is eliminating CPU bottlenecks. It could very well just be demonstrating better GPU optimizations, just like driver updates do. In some cases Mantle absolutely is eliminating a CPU bottleneck (large pop servers with APUs, for example), but your graph isn't showing that situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

Whoops misread the graph myself lol..

Uhmm if there is any amount of increase, that means something was holding that tiny bit of performance from coming out.

And what does bottleneck mean again?

Either way I was pointing to the 4.2ghz bench.

If doubling the CPU performance (roughly, 50% higher clock speed and 3 times the number of threads) only gives you a 5% performance gain, that's a pretty wide neck.
Edited by Forceman - 2/22/14 at 9:22pm
post #392 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Running a 4960X at 3 GHz with only 2C/4T is basically making it an i3 (with the additional cache, of course). And it performs within 5% of the 6C/12T/4.2GHz version. But I think you are missing my main point, which is that just because performance is better on Mantle doesn't mean it is because Mantle is eliminating CPU bottlenecks. It could very well just be demonstrating better GPU optimizations, just like driver updates do. In some cases Mantle absolutely is eliminating a CPU bottleneck (large pop servers with APUs, for example), but your graph isn't showing that situation.

I agree the 3ghz and 2ghz benchmarks are flunky.
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post #393 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

I agree the 3ghz and 2ghz benchmarks are flunky.

We really need Thief to release. Hopefully that'll show more repeatable benchmarks - it's so hard to test multiplayer BF4 and that's where all the gains are.
post #394 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

We really need Thief to release. Hopefully that'll show more repeatable benchmarks - it's so hard to test multiplayer BF4 and that's where all the gains are.

Star swarm is here.
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post #395 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

Star swarm is here.

Meh. Can't play Star Swarm. I want to see real games. Anyone know what's next after Thief?

Edit: And did anyone ever find out whether they are really using a new driver (beta 1.7) or if that was some kind of typo on their part?
post #396 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Meh. Can't play Star Swarm. I want to see real games. Anyone know what's next after Thief?

No one know whats coming after Thief , though all of EA's upcoming games, Star Citizen, Sniper elite 3 are the one which will support Mantle.

http://techreport.com/news/25682/sniper-elite-3-to-tap-amd-mantle-api
http://techreport.com/news/25651/mantle-to-power-15-frostbite-games-dice-calls-for-multi-vendor-support
http://techreport.com/news/25605/updated-star-citizen-thief-developers-sign-on-to-support-amd-mantle-api
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post #397 of 589
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Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

How can you say Mantle is eliminating a CPU bottleneck when the DirectX performance is the same at 2 Ghz and at 3 Ghz? If the CPU is bottlenecking that card, you'd see a gain with frequency as well. And gains don't have to be from eliminating CPU bottlenecks anyway, we routinely get gains from driver updates, and they aren't "eliminating CPU bottlenecks". Mantle is running better performance than DirectX in the bench, that's all that is showing.

Because the bottleneck is the api itself and the cpu will not gonna matter. Dx11 use a thread for its own purpose. Data structure. If you get bottleneck on this thread ( draw calls) then you cant do anything. Dx11 is not fast enough to feed the gpu. This is what we call 'bad optimize game'
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post #398 of 589
Could it be BF4 just does not need the extra draw calls that Mantle provides and its still CPU limited because of DX11 nature that the game was initially designed with in-mind.
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post #399 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Could it be BF4 just does not need the extra draw calls that Mantle provides and its still CPU limited because of DX11 nature that the game was initially designed with in-mind.

No.You dont make a game for an API. First they focus consoles then pc. Also mantle use a different rendering layer so that excuse is just wrong.
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post #400 of 589
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Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

We really need Thief to release. Hopefully that'll show more repeatable benchmarks - it's so hard to test multiplayer BF4 and that's where all the gains are.
Thief wont be showing much, what we need is a RTS game to show these advantages, games that actually design with Mantle+ console API as the primary API. BF4 seems isnt the one, infact even older title BF3 Single player DirectX the game show very little dependent on CPU.
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