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[pcgameshardware] BF4 : Graphics cards benchmarks - Mantle vs Direct3D, R9 290X vsGTX 780 Ti Catalyst 14.1 BETA 1.7 - Page 42

post #411 of 589
Anyone have any idea why I suddenly can't post replies with Firefox? IE still works fine. Firefox worked this morning. Did they make a change to the site or something?
post #412 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Anyone have any idea why I suddenly can't post replies with Firefox? IE still works fine. Firefox worked this morning. Did they make a change to the site or something?
clear your cache think it a Firefox issue i had it happen to me on other sites
post #413 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

For example, in BF4 my gpu usage is always a 99% and I x fps.

If I add that $1000 cpu in my rig, I will get even more fps even though my gpu usage was at 99% on my AMD cpu.

What would you fault?

a higher end cpu will always provide more fps. That's not a bottleneck..last time i checked games rely on the cpu heavily..
post #414 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by shak2300 View Post

clear your cache think it a Firefox issue i had it happen to me on other sites

Turns out it was Noscript being outdated.
post #415 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBestiaHumana View Post

Love how the graph shows that 4960x at 2ghz, but not at 4.9. Lmao

Can't wait for Bencher to correct me on that.
Because all 4960x will do 4.9 on air. lol.
Seriously WE HAVE TO BE RATIONAL. 4.6 is the more realistic clock on water and even though we have the means and money to WC a whole rig doesn't mean benchers can afford them
ADD : You're still as ridiculous as ever
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

My concern is that you are claiming that Mantle eliminates a CPU bottleneck, and yet the performance is the same at both 2 and 3 GHz. Which would imply that there is no bottleneck. Otherwise increasing frequency should also improve performance. Just because performance is higher, doesn't necessarily mean it was because the CPU was bottlenecking. There are other optimizations that can be made to improve performance, as we see with nearly every driver update.

Edit: Actually, as I look at that graph again, I really don't get what they are trying to show. 4C/4T @ 2 GHz is the same as 2C/4T @ 3 GHz? And then they also show 6C/12T @ 4.2? All of which have roughly the same performance. Makes no sense. Doubling the frequency, adding 50% more cores and 200% more threads, and you get a measly 5% performance increase? Doesn't look like a CPU bottleneck to me.
You didn't get the point. This shows that those gaming on weak i3s or i5s can game to the full potential. Also it doesn't work that way really, a 2x higher clock =/= 2x performance. What that graph really shows is how inefficient DirectX is.
AND YES. A 7870/R9 270x IS BOTTLENECKED BY A 2500K. And it's true that BF4 uses so much computing horsepower for every single bullet that CPU usage can spike so high that FPS can take a dip with DX. That's how it is
Quote:
Originally Posted by felon View Post

You don't have an r9 gpu..they barely got the r9s under control. You are on the old gen and god knows what issues you'll have at this point. Unless you are on r7 or r9, i wouldn't even bother testing the beta drivers out
Oh so if you bought a R9 280x things will be fine? IT'S THE SAME DAMN THING AS A 7970 AS IS R7 260X AND A 7790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Running a 4960X at 3 GHz with only 2C/4T is basically making it an i3 (with the additional cache, of course). And it performs within 5% of the 6C/12T/4.2GHz version. But I think you are missing my main point, which is that just because performance is better on Mantle doesn't mean it is because Mantle is eliminating CPU bottlenecks. It could very well just be demonstrating better GPU optimizations, just like driver updates do. In some cases Mantle absolutely is eliminating a CPU bottleneck (large pop servers with APUs, for example), but your graph isn't showing that situation.
If doubling the CPU performance (roughly, 50% higher clock speed and 3 times the number of threads) only gives you a 5% performance gain, that's a pretty wide neck.
If you're just looking up in the field CPU usage won't even move much. But it really changes in a 32-player or 64-player game and while you're actually playing. i3s can turn into a slow pudge of jello mess while stock i7s probably chug along fine slightly below 60.
I didn't get much benefit because I've a 3.6GHz 12-thread CPU anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by revro View Post

why dont we see in mainstream the numbers for 1440p/1600p?

I had to look like idiot for mantle 1440p numbers ... found only this one
here is the link

3930k@4.3GHz @1440p and the numbers are telling a story that makes sense why we get only 1080p results and none 1440p/1600p/3x1080p
Not everybody wants to buy a 600$ CPU and 300$+ mobo that are 1 year behind the mainsteam section that costs half that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

Thief wont be showing much, what we need is a RTS game to show these advantages, games that actually design with Mantle+ console API as the primary API. BF4 seems isnt the one, infact even older title BF3 Single player DirectX the game show very little dependent on CPU.
I tried star swarm with a r9 280x on a 2500k and it showed a rather large difference
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

WOW....

I just ran star swarn fir the first time...

In DX I was getting 17fps during fire fight. With mantle I get 62fps band.gif
Well there you go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboner1 View Post

If nvidia released something that increased performance by 7% for $200 you guys would be jumping out your tree to get it, AMD do it for free and it's not good enough. And that's the lower end of performance gains, we all know mantle is better than dx11 so why are you guys making yourselves look silly defending something that's worse??? Its not AMD vs nvidia, it's directx vs mantle.. And you know mantle is better. And if you don't your in denial.
Exactly. Nvidia fanboys. What we want on OCN is to get the most we can out of something. Mantle is here to do that and everyone is saying "MEHH IT'S NOTHING GOOD" It's something good and it really is. Better than some G-Sync thing that you have to pay extra for ...
And yes i checked a few weeks ago that a 290 is still only 50$ more than the 780. At least it's 10% faster clock for clock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Actually now that I think about it, I wonder if the draw calls increased in BF4. That was the big thing with Mantle. FPS is not telling the whole story at all, albeit cool. I haven't seen any real mention of what parts of Mantle were implemented. You could be getting 30FPS more and with that 30FPS you are also getting more objects drawn to screen by some %.
It's not so good now as FPS never had really used so much CPU power but BF4 leverages Mantle because ... Well the consoles have pretty weak CPU power so they developed for the consoles using Mantle. On the desktop it's not so noticeable but how many big games are usually developed for desktop platform?
Quote:
Originally Posted by felon View Post

a higher end cpu will always provide more fps. That's not a bottleneck..last time i checked games rely on the cpu heavily..
It is a bottleneck if a higher end cpu provide more fps. But if your GPU is only a single one there is a point of buying better and not getting anything extra in return. Also are you suggesting a 4960x = definitely better fps than 4930k? that's your logic you implied smile.gif
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post #416 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

It is a bottleneck if a higher end cpu provide more fps. But if your GPU is only a single one there is a point of buying better and not getting anything extra in return. Also are you suggesting a 4960x = definitely better fps than 4930k? that's your logic you implied smile.gif
Sometimes a certain component is more the bottleneck in this case the gpu the main thing is there is a point where the latency/waiting time improvements are negligible and therefore no longer called bottleneck.
post #417 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post


Well the consoles have pretty weak CPU power so they developed for the consoles using Mantle.
Quote:
Mantle is NOT in consoles. What Mantle creates for the PC is a development environment that's *similar* to the consoles,

Source:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7421/amd-expands-on-microsoft-blog-post

The rest of your post just sounds like a bitter rant calling people fanboys, gsync is rubbish etc etc etc ad nauseum...
Meh
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post #418 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

It is a bottleneck if a higher end cpu provide more fps. But if your GPU is only a single one there is a point of buying better and not getting anything extra in return. Also are you suggesting a 4960x = definitely better fps than 4930k? that's your logic you implied smile.gif

uh those cpus are very close in performance...

But yes if you keep overclocking, you will see more fps, bottleneck or not. The cpu takes more of the load and does it faster.
You just gave an example of 2 very similarly performing cpus, that have a huge price difference, and used that as an example for bottlenecking?

You basically just used a price difference as your main point...You essentially implied that 2x the price = 2x the performance
post #419 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

Not everybody wants to buy a 600$ CPU and 300$+ mobo that are 1 year behind the mainsteam section that costs half that.
that does not matter. 6core is little more performance than a 300buck 4770k
but its a matter of fact, that there is mainstreamwide information embargo on mantle performance on resolutions over 1080. normally they all go crazy about showing 1440p 1600p tripple 1080, but suddenly not a word about higher resolution

dont make me laugh

best
revro
post #420 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by revro View Post

that does not matter. 6core is little more performance than a 300buck 4770k
but its a matter of fact, that there is mainstreamwide information embargo on mantle performance on resolutions over 1080. normally they all go crazy about showing 1440p 1600p tripple 1080, but suddenly not a word about higher resolution

dont make me laugh

best
revro

I am running 1440p and mantle and can confirm a significant increase in performance. Save your laughter, Mantle is indeed better than directx @ 1440p, or any resolution.

Best
Mboner1 tongue.gif
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [pcgameshardware] BF4 : Graphics cards benchmarks - Mantle vs Direct3D, R9 290X vsGTX 780 Ti Catalyst 14.1 BETA 1.7