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[pcgameshardware] BF4 : Graphics cards benchmarks - Mantle vs Direct3D, R9 290X vsGTX 780 Ti Catalyst 14.1 BETA 1.7 - Page 50

post #491 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

Btw anyone interested in fram times Dice has them on their page.

AMD A10-7850K (‘Kaveri’ APU), 4 cores @ 3.7 GHz AMD FX-8350, 8 cores @ 4 GHz Intel Core i7-3970x Extreme, 12 logical cores @ 3.5 GHz
DX11 avg 26.6 ms/f (37.6 fps) 18.87 ms/f (52.9 fps) 13.24 ms/f (78.4 fps)
Mantle avg 23.3 ms/f (43 fps) 15.08 ms/f (66.3 fps) 8.38 ms/f (121.5 fps)

https://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/news/view/bf4-mantle-live/

DICE's own numbers are also wrong, UNLESS, you believe R9 290X in Crossfire, only get 66 FPS in BF4 @ 1080P.

While my single GTX 780 Ti is capable of doing the same as 2x 290X (WHICH I BELIEVE IS NOT CORRECT.) The DirectX11 drivers in Beta 14.1 Catalyst are quite possibly bugged. I believe if I am not mistaken a single R9 290X should best a single GTX 780 Ti in BF4. I hope a real R9 290X owner can verify.

I talk about that at the bottom of the article I wrote here on OCN.
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post #492 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

DICE's own numbers are also wrong, UNLESS, you believe R9 290X in Crossfire, only get 66 FPS in BF4 @ 1080P.

While my single GTX 780 Ti is capable of doing the same as 2x 290X (WHICH I BELIEVE IS NOT CORRECT.) The DirectX11 drivers in Beta 14.1 Catalyst are quite possibly bugged. I believe if I am not mistaken a single R9 290X should best a single GTX 780 Ti in BF4. I hope a real R9 290X owner can verify.

I talk about that at the bottom of the article I wrote here on OCN.

Do you understand that its a specific part on this level?
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post #493 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

DICE's own numbers are also wrong, UNLESS, you believe R9 290X in Crossfire, only get 66 FPS in BF4 @ 1080P.

While my single GTX 780 Ti is capable of doing the same as 2x 290X (WHICH I BELIEVE IS NOT CORRECT.) The DirectX11 drivers in Beta 14.1 Catalyst are quite possibly bugged. I believe if I am not mistaken a single R9 290X should best a single GTX 780 Ti in BF4. I hope a real R9 290X owner can verify.

I talk about that at the bottom of the article I wrote here on OCN.

I really would want to see you pull it off on the same level and stock cpu.
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post #494 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

DICE's own numbers are also wrong, UNLESS, you believe R9 290X in Crossfire, only get 66 FPS in BF4 @ 1080P.

While my single GTX 780 Ti is capable of doing the same as 2x 290X (WHICH I BELIEVE IS NOT CORRECT.) The DirectX11 drivers in Beta 14.1 Catalyst are quite possibly bugged. I believe if I am not mistaken a single R9 290X should best a single GTX 780 Ti in BF4. I hope a real R9 290X owner can verify.

I talk about that at the bottom of the article I wrote here on OCN.

Do you understand that its a specific part on this level?

I do yes, my point still stands yes? Do you believe 2x 290X, with a 12 logical processor, has them limited to just 66 FPS, in a game that has a fully multi-threaded rendering unit for DX11, on Ultra in 1080P?

Second question I brought up in the article, does Mantle even support CrossfireX in this manner?
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post #495 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

I do yes, my point still stands yes? Do you believe 2x 290X, with a 12 logical processor, has them limited to just 66 FPS, in a game that has a fully multi-threaded rendering unit for DX11?

Yes . Do you really expect similar fps on the whole level? It doesnt matter if the cpu has 12 threads. If dx11 gets a bottleneck you get a bottleneck. Its like taking a ferrari to a broken road. If your cpu cant feed your gpu yeah expect 78 fps from 290x (not 66 like you saying).Probably you dont know how you program for dx
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post #496 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

I do yes, my point still stands yes? Do you believe 2x 290X, with a 12 logical processor, has them limited to just 66 FPS, in a game that has a fully multi-threaded rendering unit for DX11?

Yes . Do you really expect similar fps on the whole level? It doesnt matter if the cpu has 12 threads. If dx11 gets a bottleneck you get a bottleneck. Its like taking a ferrari to a broken road. If your cpu cant feed your gpu yeah expect 78 fps from 290x (not 66 like you saying).Probably you dont know how you program for dx



Except here we see that BF4 is fully multi-threaded optimized and scales well with CPU. Mantle will always be a victor due to it being a CTM, which is fine. However, 66 FPS shows signs of a terrible driver on DX11 (or just CrossfireX in general) and I dare say the 13.12 had better performance from everything I have seen.

However, if you believe it is correct, and I believe it is wrong, then that is an impasse and there isn't nothing we can say to move this conversation forward.
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post #497 of 589
Actually my point. You dont know. The engine is multithread. Dx11 is? Look your own graph. From 2c doesnt scale up to 6 cores. why when mantle is faster? Because dx11 use an additional thread. A thread for the data structure. You send your data then dx creates the data structure that decides what to send where. If you get a bottleneck on this thread then you cant do anything. Ofc all these years we try to brute force with 5ghz intel cpus but we still get these weird fps drops. Also crossfire needs a lot more data than a single gpu.

tldr they should match mantle performance ( which is already gpu limited part) with more cores. But they dont


Edited by sugarhell - 2/23/14 at 2:22pm
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post #498 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post



Except here we see that BF4 is fully multi-threaded optimized and scales well with CPU. Mantle will always be a victor due to it being a CTM, which is fine. However, 66 FPS shows signs of a terrible driver on DX11 (or just CrossfireX in general) and I dare say the 13.12 had better performance from everything I have seen.

However, if you believe it is correct, and I believe it is wrong, then that is an impasse and there isn't nothing we can say to move this conversation forward.

Btw the 66 fps is for a single 7970 in the Dice test biggrin.gif

crossfire 290x is 120fps.
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post #499 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post


Different video? The video I watched is literally linked on the first page of this topic, and it shows them switching from DX to Mantle in the video, so there is no question which is which.

Also, Frame Pacing has been a known issue for Mantle from day one, it was one of the biggest complaints people who used it with the initial beta drivers had. They have supposedly been "fixed" or "improved", but many users still have the problem.

 

Can you give any links, I ask because I can't recall seeing any complaint about Frame Pacing in Mantle on any of the Mantle treads that I have been reading from the start.

Is it possible you are talking about the huge lag spike/video freeze/pause that would happen every 30 seconds to 20 minutes(every system seems different) and last about half a second ? It was fix with the second assault DLC and everybody was complaining about that.

You can also get a stutter with crossfire, as I did today when I tried the 14.1 driver again, but after removing my user.cfg file and deleting the Mantle files in the cache folder in My Documents/BF4 and all was good, FPS went from 60~70 to 150~200.

 

Have you tried Mantle for yourself ?

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post #500 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

Actually my point. You dont know. The engine is multithread. Dx11 is? Look your own graph. From 2c doesnt scale up to 6 cores. why when mantle is faster? Because dx11 use an additional thread. A thread for the data structure. You send your data then dx creates the data structure that decides what to send where. If you get a bottleneck on this thread then you cant do anything. Ofc all these years we try to brute force with 5ghz intel cpus but we still get these weird fps drops. Also crossfire needs a lot more data than a single gpu.

tldr they should match mantle performance ( which is already gpu limited part) with more cores. But they dont


First off, an engine can be multi-threaded, and the rendering unit might not be.

Multi-threaded engine != Multi-Threaded Rendering.

All 3 scenarios above, varying core amounts, and varying frequency show that you still are GPU bounded. That is excellent programming. EVEN in a GPU bounded scenario, Mantle pulls ahead (as expected) from lower overhead and being closer to metal. This is pretty much all a high end machine will get from Mantle, which is still free performance and is nice.

In a game that is NOT GPU bounded and is CPU bound, then Mantle would show dramatic differences. Such as a low IPC CPU or a non-multi-threaded environment or renderer. BF4 is not one of those games.

You simply do not understand what Mantle does, therefor it is moot to continue this conversation. The game doesn't "scale" as you put it with threads because in every scenario the game is so efficiently programmed to still be GPU bound even when reducing the number of threads or CPU frequency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post



Except here we see that BF4 is fully multi-threaded optimized and scales well with CPU. Mantle will always be a victor due to it being a CTM, which is fine. However, 66 FPS shows signs of a terrible driver on DX11 (or just CrossfireX in general) and I dare say the 13.12 had better performance from everything I have seen.

However, if you believe it is correct, and I believe it is wrong, then that is an impasse and there isn't nothing we can say to move this conversation forward.

Btw the 66 fps is for a single 7970 in the Dice test biggrin.gif

crossfire 290x is 120fps.
Quote:
Test case 3: High-end single-player with multiple GPUs
CPU: Intel Core i7-3970x Extreme, 12 logical cores @ 3.5 GHz
GPU: 2x AMD Radeon R9 290x 4 GB
Settings: 1080p ULTRA 4x MSAA
OS: Windows 8 64-bit
Level: South China Sea “Broken Flight Deck”
This single-player scene is heavy on both the CPU and GPU with lots of action going on. Test was done on the highest end Intel CPU on Windows 8, which is the fastest option before Mantle thanks to DirectX 11.1. Still this CPU is not fast enough to keep the 2 290x GPUs fed at 1080p on Ultra settings so we get a significant CPU performance bottleneck which results in major performance improvement when enabling Mantle.
Result: 13.24 ms/f -> = 8.38 ms/f = 58% faster

No it is not. 66 FPS is for 2x AMD Radeon R9 290x 4 GB.
Edited by RagingCain - 2/23/14 at 3:13pm
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