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[pcgameshardware] BF4 : Graphics cards benchmarks - Mantle vs Direct3D, R9 290X vsGTX 780 Ti Catalyst 14.1 BETA 1.7 - Page 51

post #501 of 589
Yeah i dont understand. Lol. I am done with you its useless to even answer to you. Maybe we should go back to how the fog affect the performance wink.gif

You post on a thread about MP bf4. And you didint try to read the results.Yes bf4 is one of these cases

oh god i hate the trolls

If you dont understand my comment then just dont answer to me

Probably you dont get the fundamentals. Mantle actually atm helps only with cpu performance. And still even on SP bf4 you get lower performance with dx. And you post me a graph that bf4 doesnt scale at all no matter the freq and the cores.And then you tell me that i dont understand mantle tongue.gif

From 78 it went to 121. Not 66
Edited by sugarhell - 2/23/14 at 3:19pm
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post #502 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post


In a game that is NOT GPU bounded and is CPU bound, then Mantle would show dramatic differences. Such as a low IPC CPU or a non-multi-threaded environment or renderer. BF4 is not one of those games.

.

If BF4 isn't on of those games why does a 7850k + 290x show such improvement?

I know BF4 handles cpu much better than other games but still not enough in the 7850k's case.
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post #503 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Alright so here is the deal, and some jimmies are about to get rustled, forgive me if this has been pointed out as I was away from this thread a couple of days.....

I now know why they didn't put up frame pacing information or the minimum rates for Mantle in their benchmarks!

Yup....

I went and watched their video, which show the frame rates and them playing the game, DX and Mantle; here is what I observed.

Direct X had more stable frame rates, they were in that ~50 to ~60 area, with the occasional dip into the high 40s. In other words, they were stable! Secondly, the DX frame pacing was better, as someone with two 7970s I have become rather good at seeing frame pacing issues with AMD. While they have been IMPROVED a little, Mantle still has the problem. It was clear as day when they were on Mantle that the frame pacing wasn't as good as DX, while the "rate" was much higher, it still had that jittery mess.

Crossfire isn't supported with the 14.1 driver. How many times does it need to be said before people understand that? Frame time pacing is better with AMD these days in drivers that support it, if you use crossfire 7970's rollback to 13.12.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post


Also, it looked like they had VSync on during the DX version as well; I don't read/speak German so I couldn't get that info out of reading the site. But the way the frame rate was behaving was very much as if VSync was on.

There is a video edit of the time period where they stop the DX play and go to the menu to enable Mantle, which tells me they probably turned off VSync at this point.

As others have said you must be watching a different video, i see 70fps pretty early on in the video? You know v-sync would keep it at 60fps unless it's a 120hz monitor in which case you are just guessing and making assumptions. Don't like the review? Fine. Mantle is still better than directx, by how much is up to the individual to decide.
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post #504 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

It wasn't just 100 MHZ that was brought up, but rather the overall methodology used, while only posting selective data.

Besides, nothing good can come from 1 person posting 67 times in 1 thread either.

Sounds too familiar, doesn't it? I know where I have seen this behavior before, about two years ago..........rolleyes.gif
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post #505 of 589
Result: 13.24 ms/f -> = 8.38 ms/f = 58% faster says 75.5 FPS -> 119.3FPS this obviously shows a huge CPU BOTTLENECK with 290s in CF. Any questions?
post #506 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by mltms View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yungbenny911 View Post

OC the CPU and you'll see significant gains. BF4 and 3 and very CPU dependent, someone like me with a 3770k @ constant 4.8GHZ will see little gains with mantle if i had AMD GPU's



So it doesn't exactly remove the CPU bottleneck, but it removes practically 30% of the overhead on slower resolutions. thumb.gif

Great stuff. More they jump on Mantel the better. But as usual, once you hit the extreme resolutions, the GPU becomes the limiting factor, not the CPU.
post #507 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

Yeah i dont understand. Lol. I am done with you its useless to even answer to you. Maybe we should go back to how the fog affect the performance wink.gif

You post on a thread about MP bf4. And you didint try to read the results.Yes bf4 is one of these cases

oh god i hate the trolls

If you dont understand my comment then just dont answer to me

Probably you dont get the fundamentals. Mantle actually atm helps only with cpu performance. And still even on SP bf4 you get lower performance with dx. And you post me a graph that bf4 doesnt scale at all no matter the freq and the cores.And then you tell me that i dont understand mantle tongue.gif

From 78 it went to 121. Not 66

That is my mistake on 66 vs 78. It is in fact 78 fps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post


In a game that is NOT GPU bounded and is CPU bound, then Mantle would show dramatic differences. Such as a low IPC CPU or a non-multi-threaded environment or renderer. BF4 is not one of those games.

.

If BF4 isn't on of those games why does a 7850k + 290x show such improvement?

I know BF4 handles cpu much better than other games but still not enough in the 7850k's case.

This is where the 7850K individual IPC isn't strong enough and physically limits the game. My previous statement of i7 3970K, with a decent frequency at stock and twelve threads is the context of my claim. Also the retesting done by other sites show that the Intel architecture holds the game back a lot less than AMD CPUs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Result: 13.24 ms/f -> = 8.38 ms/f = 58% faster says 75.5 FPS -> 119.3FPS this obviously shows a huge CPU BOTTLENECK with 290s in CF. Any questions?

The fact that is 75.5 FPS is the question. Which you all seem completely oblivious to me asking.

Here is an example of 2x 290/290xs killing Battlefield 3 in DirectX11.


http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290_crossfire_review_benchmarks,16.html

Here is an example again of 2x 290/290xs killing Battlefield 3 in DirectX11.



http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_290X_CrossFire/4.html

A single Radeon R9 290X destroying Battlefield 3 in DirectX11.



http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/11

But, alas, Battlefield 3 is not the same as Battlefield 4, how different can the results be?

Here is a single Radeon R9 290X doing quite well in BF4, DX11, Ultra:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2013/11/27/battlefield-4-performance-analysis/3

Over the 78 FPS? Not quite, but this is a single card, not the 2x R9 290Xs in question. Ridiculous 75.5 fps. Any person here owning such a rig would question this without a second glance.

Here is another single Radeon R9 290X, higher rest, DX11, Ultra:


http://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=7399


I dare say there is indeed a correlation, not necessary a cause or an effect, and nothing against Mantle, but the numbers are counter to what data we can actually find.

The DX11 performance provided in this benchmark and in DICE is below what I would come to expect of an 2x R9 290X, with varying degrees of changes. It is more than enough for me to question the accuracy of this test and DICEs test.

Factoriong in that the tests are un-repeatable. SO yes, I do still have questions.
Edited by RagingCain - 2/23/14 at 5:10pm
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post #508 of 589
YOU DONT understand that is the specific place not the first level. And you post graphs from reviews that we dont know the place that they bench. CALL it cherry picked. Thats why you have average fps. Thats why you have min fps. They choose the place with the min fps.Its just the place on the screenshot not a 2 min bench

Like the first mission of bf4 when the place goes down after the heli attack. For no reason i go down to 50 fps.
Edited by sugarhell - 2/23/14 at 5:14pm
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post #509 of 589
Where is this 1.7 beta?!?
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post #510 of 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunion View Post

Where is this 1.7 beta?!?

Its an alpha driver. From twitter, catalyst creator sez that we will gonna get it this week
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