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New mmo mouse "Redragon Perdition".....a good buy? - Page 2

post #11 of 40
WHERE DO PEOPLE FIND THESE COMPANIES?!? lol
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post #12 of 40
amazon/ebay.

avago 9800 trash sensor? mate stop overexaggerating... i know it got flaws but still best in laser market...
post #13 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredgHar View Post

amazon/ebay.

avago 9800 trash sensor? mate stop overexaggerating... i know it got flaws but still best in laser market...

Optical or laser is irrelevant, both are sensors at the end of the day. Compared to alternatives the 9800 shouldn't be in a mouse designed, sold and advertised to be used in games.

This mentality reminds of AMD only cpu benchmark threads because they can't compete when all brands are free to post results.
Edited by Derp - 4/10/14 at 12:27pm
post #14 of 40
Well... I'm quite long on this forum, also in gaming hardware. please enlighten me then with knowledge what is GOOD/BETTER sensor compared to 9800?

and please don't talk about optics, we are on laser here now.
post #15 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredgHar View Post

Well... I'm quite long on this forum, also in gaming hardware. please enlighten me then with knowledge what is GOOD/BETTER sensor compared to 9800?

and please don't talk about optics, we are on laser here now.
The new one in the Logitech G502 is apparently fantastic. And there is NOTHING wrong with optical sensors. They are just as accurate, just as reliable and just as good as modern laser sensors.
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post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADHDadditiv View Post

The new one in the Logitech G502 is apparently fantastic. And there is NOTHING wrong with optical sensors. They are just as accurate, just as reliable and just as:Dood as modern laser sensors.

You totally missed my point:) I meant he should not bring optical mouse to this topic(what is better that 9800) since i want better but in lasers. For me optical technology is superior to laser(you wrote "just as laser" but should said opposite), but lasers are not so bad for me so I drop some laser mouse with nice features for any optical only for that.

As for me 9800 is very good in lasers, and cant think of any better. So just want to expand my knowledge.

Oh and by the way regarding G502 you mentioned. As soon as i saw in features "yopu control weight and balance" I just dropped interest. don't want to go too deep into that- but any mouse for me that in which weight system is so high-lighted almost on every step(which in fact for me is only marketing BS) means it don't have much to offer. I might be wrong but im happy what i have and looking forward to 3310+ based future mouses(mionix/roccat/some rival revision maybe)
Edited by FredgHar - 4/10/14 at 1:32pm
post #17 of 40
9800 is not a good laser mouse. In fact, everyone is going to flame the **** out of me for this one, but: PTE, when implemented properly, is a much better sensor. Not only does it support a higher PCS, but on a hard mat with no CPI scaling it tracks incredibly well. If your FPS sensitivity is as low as mine, the Z axis issue is hardly ever noticeable. That does NOT mean that it isn't there. There has been a lot of work hiding the flaws in the PTE, but if you just use a raw firmware like the earlier 1st gen Mamba firmwares you can absolutely wipe the floor with people in specfic cases with PTE mice. They are using the Doppler effect and operate differently than laser-illuminated sensors like the 9800, so a very different technology.

Optical beats the **** out of laser mice though in every category except for LOD, which itself has been drastically reduced in modern optical designs and is hardly an issue now.
Edited by metal571 - 4/10/14 at 1:38pm
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post #18 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal571 View Post

9800 is not a good laser mouse. In fact, everyone is going to flame the **** out of me for this one, but: PTE, when implemented properly, is a much better sensor. Not only does it support a higher PCS, but on a hard mat with no CPI scaling it tracks incredibly well. If your FPS sensitivity is as low as mine, the Z axis issue is hardly ever noticeable. That does NOT mean that it isn't there. There has been a lot of work hiding the flaws in the PTE, but if you just use a raw firmware like the earlier 1st gen Mamba firmwares you can absolutely wipe the floor with people in specfic cases with PTE mice. They are using the Doppler effect and operate differently than laser-illuminated sensors like the 9800, so a very different technology.

Optical beats the **** out of laser mice though in every category except for LOD, which itself has been drastically reduced in modern optical designs and is hardly an issue now.

I agree and disagree with you on certain points. The 9800 isn't a great sensor. I actually prefer the 9500(sensei), as I've had less issues with them overall, but I was one of the sad early 9800 adopters that had to deal with the floating cursor issues of the early firmwares.

As far as the PTE goes... It has issues. I personally hate the way the cursor feels, but the other negatives far outweigh the positives. It does have a great PCS. It also has no acceleration or prediction. That's great. Unfortunately, it is also the pickiest sensor on the market when it comes to debris. If you have anything on your mouse pad or god forbid, the sensor itself, kiss the cursor control goodbye. Then there's the hyper sensitivity to EVERYTHING. They've used dynamic CPI(a total performance nightmare) to hide this, as well as the z-axis bug, but if you have loud speakers, a sub woofer, a twitchy leg, or a habit of drumming on your desk while playing, sit back and watch the cursor walk it's way up the screen. This mainly bothered me when playing games where my mouse hand had to stay still for some period of time. I'd have to move the mouse to regain control over the cursor and correct the location. Then there's the z-axis bug. This was the major killer for me, but I'm a mid-sense lifter, so it is the perfect bug to piss me off. Finally, the failure rate. Three of the four PTE mice that I own have lost the y-axis completely. I might be alone on this one, but it seems to be a popular issue on RAT mice. Some say a deep cleaning will get the axis back, but I've just called and had the mouse replaced.

After fighting four mice with this sensor, including a RAT7 with the newer revision, I've writtin the PTE off completely until Philips completely starts over and stops putting a bandaid on a gaping wound.
post #19 of 40
I'm using 500dpi atm for spawn/xornet shell for 2d stuff (osu, league, sc2), don't know why anyone would want under 1 inch to cross screen (~1920-2560dpi on 1080/1440p) as that's pretty much the high end of well-usable sensitivity

given that 3310 can natively do ~5000dpi, what use is there going with a doubled 9800 for 16.4k DPI that makes big sacrifices in areas like precision? (same movement of physical mouse does not track to same place with anywhere near the degree of accuracy+consistency of other sensors)
Quote:
and please don't talk about optics, we are on laser here now.

Wait, what? Is there some misconception here that laser mice are on another level vs optical, or there is some incentive to take them? Take what works best, it just happens to be optical most of the time right now
Edited by Cyro999 - 4/10/14 at 2:30pm
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post #20 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

I'm using 500dpi atm for spawn/xornet shell for 2d stuff (osu, league, sc2), don't know why anyone would want under 1 inch to cross screen (~1920-2560dpi on 1080/1440p) as that's pretty much the high end of well-usable sensitivity

given that 3310 can natively do ~5000dpi, what use is there going with a doubled 9800 for 16.4k DPI that makes big sacrifices in areas like precision? (same movement of physical mouse does not track to same place with anywhere near the degree of accuracy+consistency of other sensors)

The answer to this is: OMG MOAR DPI. I'm serious. The average person really is that uninformed. The amount of CPI packed into modern laser mice is downright stupid as it only makes every step worse overall. You are 100% correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineDark View Post

I agree and disagree with you on certain points. The 9800 isn't a great sensor. I actually prefer the 9500(sensei), as I've had less issues with them overall, but I was one of the sad early 9800 adopters that had to deal with the floating cursor issues of the early firmwares.

As far as the PTE goes... It has issues. I personally hate the way the cursor feels, but the other negatives far outweigh the positives. It does have a great PCS. It also has no acceleration or prediction. That's great. Unfortunately, it is also the pickiest sensor on the market when it comes to debris. If you have anything on your mouse pad or god forbid, the sensor itself, kiss the cursor control goodbye. Then there's the hyper sensitivity to EVERYTHING. They've used dynamic CPI(a total performance nightmare) to hide this, as well as the z-axis bug, but if you have loud speakers, a sub woofer, a twitchy leg, or a habit of drumming on your desk while playing, sit back and watch the cursor walk it's way up the screen. This mainly bothered me when playing games where my mouse hand had to stay still for some period of time. I'd have to move the mouse to regain control over the cursor and correct the location. Then there's the z-axis bug. This was the major killer for me, but I'm a mid-sense lifter, so it is the perfect bug to piss me off. Finally, the failure rate. Three of the four PTE mice that I own have lost the y-axis completely. I might be alone on this one, but it seems to be a popular issue on RAT mice. Some say a deep cleaning will get the axis back, but I've just called and had the mouse replaced.

After fighting four mice with this sensor, including a RAT7 with the newer revision, I've writtin the PTE off completely until Philips completely starts over and stops putting a bandaid on a gaping wound.

And there are a couple of reasons more why not to get a PTE sensor. I haven't had any experience with failure rate or anything like that but I will say I have an original Lachesis that I bought myself from eBay just to get an overall feel of what PTE is like to have with no dynamic CPI scaling at all. That sensor still works, somehow. Very old unit. It was helpful to me though in understanding all the issues PTE has without trying to hide them so I could give this kind of advice on OCN.
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