Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Yahoo] AMD Brings Immersive Graphics to Embedded Applications With the New AMD Embedded Radeon(TM) E8860 GPU
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Yahoo] AMD Brings Immersive Graphics to Embedded Applications With the New AMD Embedded Radeon(TM) E8860 GPU - Page 5

post #41 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post

Quad channel DDR4 would allow a pretty impressive iGPU, and is where I suspect they're going with future APUs.

However,
You can't have sideport VRAM on an APU; for HSA -as it stands now- to function, the LCU and TCU (CPU and iGPU, in this case) have to be working with a unified memory pool, which is impossible if one is using DDR3/4 and the other is using GDDR5. For GDDR5 to work, the entire APU would need to run off it.

Quad channel DDR4 would be adequate for 7770 level iGPU probably. However, with shrinking processes I suspect that even that would bottleneck eventually. But ofc not as bad as dual channel. And that ofc depends also on where do the DDR4 clocks end up as the nodes shrink and processes mature.

About mixed GDDR5 and DDR3 or DDR4 - I do not think having it mixed would be impossible from the HSA standpoint, however, it obviously would complicate things on memory controller side if AMD would have to keep it all unified address space. One of the possibilities would be somekind of internal profiler which sends stuff that needs high bandwidth automatically into GDDR path and things that need low latency into DDR3/4 path. Question is at what performance penalty. another possibility is just giving the iGPU part priority for the GDDR part of memory or making the GDDR part of memory act as high bandwidth high latency cache with some kind of clever algorithm.

Anyway - I think that if AMD would ever decide it needs more bandwidth it would probably just go with more channels and new larger socket instead of starting the voodoo of mixing memory types. It just seems far more straightforward thing to do with less stuff that can go wrong. That way they would get both high bandwidth AND low latency at the same time.
Kohver v.4
(25 items)
 
Kohver v.3
(21 items)
 
Soliton
(23 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 3820 X79-UP4 Gigabyte 390X G1 Club3D 7870 Eyefinity 6 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
64 GB Barracuda 3 TB WD Green 3 TB Crucial M4 256 GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Crucial M4 64 GB Barracuda 4 TB Corsair LE 480HB Sythe big shuriken rev B 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Nexxos 280mm radiator DC-LT Alphacool GPX 390M04 Windows 7 Pro 64 bit 
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
DELL U2311H (x3) DELL U2312HM (x2) 9.7'' 2048x1536 (x3) IPAD3 retina Asus PB287Q 4K 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CM Quickfire TK (red) Corsair AX-1200i Significantly modded Jupiter .. something alumi... Logitech G700s 
Mouse Pad
3M Ergonomic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 3820 X79-UP4 Gigabyte 390X G1 Club3D 7870 Eyefinity 6 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
64 GB Barracuda 3 TB WD Green 3 TB Crucial M4 256 GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Crucial M4 64 GB Barracuda 4 TB Sythe big shuriken rev B Windows 7 Pro 64 bit 
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
DELL U2311H (x3) DELL U2312HM (x2) 9.7'' 2048x1536 (x3) IPAD3 retina Asus PB287Q 4K 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CM Quickfire TK (red) Corsair AX-1200i Modded Sharkoon VS-3 Logitech G700s 
Mouse Pad
3M Ergonomic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 3820 X79-UP4 Sapphire 7950 FleX OC XFX 6770 Eyefinity 5 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
Club3D 7870 Eyefinity 6 64 GB Samsung 750 GB F3 Barracuda 3 TB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
WD Green 3 TB Crucial M4 256 GB Crucial M4 64 GB Barracuda 4 TB 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Custom loop Windows 7 Pro 64 bit DELL U2311H (x3) DELL U2312HM (x2) 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
9.7'' 2048x1536 (x3) IPAD3 retina Asus PB287Q 4K CM Quickfire TK (red) Corsair AX-1200i 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Modded Chieftec Smart WH-02B-B-OB Logitech G700s 3M Ergonomic 
  hide details  
Reply
Kohver v.4
(25 items)
 
Kohver v.3
(21 items)
 
Soliton
(23 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 3820 X79-UP4 Gigabyte 390X G1 Club3D 7870 Eyefinity 6 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
64 GB Barracuda 3 TB WD Green 3 TB Crucial M4 256 GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Crucial M4 64 GB Barracuda 4 TB Corsair LE 480HB Sythe big shuriken rev B 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Nexxos 280mm radiator DC-LT Alphacool GPX 390M04 Windows 7 Pro 64 bit 
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
DELL U2311H (x3) DELL U2312HM (x2) 9.7'' 2048x1536 (x3) IPAD3 retina Asus PB287Q 4K 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CM Quickfire TK (red) Corsair AX-1200i Significantly modded Jupiter .. something alumi... Logitech G700s 
Mouse Pad
3M Ergonomic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 3820 X79-UP4 Gigabyte 390X G1 Club3D 7870 Eyefinity 6 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
64 GB Barracuda 3 TB WD Green 3 TB Crucial M4 256 GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Crucial M4 64 GB Barracuda 4 TB Sythe big shuriken rev B Windows 7 Pro 64 bit 
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
DELL U2311H (x3) DELL U2312HM (x2) 9.7'' 2048x1536 (x3) IPAD3 retina Asus PB287Q 4K 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CM Quickfire TK (red) Corsair AX-1200i Modded Sharkoon VS-3 Logitech G700s 
Mouse Pad
3M Ergonomic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 3820 X79-UP4 Sapphire 7950 FleX OC XFX 6770 Eyefinity 5 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
Club3D 7870 Eyefinity 6 64 GB Samsung 750 GB F3 Barracuda 3 TB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
WD Green 3 TB Crucial M4 256 GB Crucial M4 64 GB Barracuda 4 TB 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Custom loop Windows 7 Pro 64 bit DELL U2311H (x3) DELL U2312HM (x2) 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
9.7'' 2048x1536 (x3) IPAD3 retina Asus PB287Q 4K CM Quickfire TK (red) Corsair AX-1200i 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Modded Chieftec Smart WH-02B-B-OB Logitech G700s 3M Ergonomic 
  hide details  
Reply
post #42 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

Quad channel DDR4 would be adequate for 7770 level iGPU probably. However, with shrinking processes I suspect that even that would bottleneck eventually. But ofc not as bad as dual channel. And that ofc depends also on where do the DDR4 clocks end up as the nodes shrink and processes mature.

I would think up to ~260X or possibly 265, if a slight bottleneck is allowed, but it's hard to say. Unless DDR4 clocks insanely high, it would definitely bottleneck anything more than that.
Quote:
About mixed GDDR5 and DDR3 or DDR4 - I do not think having it mixed would be impossible from the HSA standpoint, however, it obviously would complicate things on memory controller side if AMD would have to keep it all unified address space. One of the possibilities would be somekind of internal profiler which sends stuff that needs high bandwidth automatically into GDDR path and things that need low latency into DDR3/4 path. Question is at what performance penalty. another possibility is just giving the iGPU part priority for the GDDR part of memory or making the GDDR part of memory act as high bandwidth high latency cache with some kind of clever algorithm.

Yeah, it's theoretically possible for HSA to work with non-unified memory (dHSA probably won't have unified memory, for instance, as that would be too taxing for PCIe), but removing that removes one of it's biggest performance and efficiency gains. As demonstrated at APU13 with the Java demo, hUMA is one of HSA's best features, so I doubt that AMD would remove it, unless working toward a rather specialized goal.

Something like using GDDR5 as a sort of cache might work, similar to a larger version of Iris Pro's L4, perhaps; you could also mark graphics-only data via Mantle or something so it's put in the framebuffer rather than the unified access space, as I doubt the CPU would generally need to access it.
Quote:
Anyway - I think that if AMD would ever decide it needs more bandwidth it would probably just go with more channels and new larger socket instead of starting the voodoo of mixing memory types. It just seems far more straightforward thing to do with less stuff that can go wrong. That way they would get both high bandwidth AND low latency at the same time.

Indeed, that's my bet as well.
SPEAR
(22 items)
 
Laptop #3
(7 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k @ 4.2ghz ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 Gigabyte WF3 Radeon R9 270X x2 G.Skill Ripjaws X 4x4gb @ 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
OCZ Agility 3 120gb (Linux) OCZ Agility 3 120gb (Windows) WD Caviar Black 2tb Hitachi 500gb 
Optical DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Sony Optiarc LightScribe LaCie external BluRay writer Antec Kühler H2O 920 + Corsair SP120 P/P Arch Linux + radeonsi + E20 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro (Insider release) ASUS VS238H-V @ 70hz Corsair K90 Corsair TX750 V2 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
None CM Storm Recon Altec Lansing ATP3 Creative Aurvana Live! 
OtherOther
Masscool Shin-Etsu G751 ASUS PCE-N10 
CPUGraphicsGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 4980HQ @ 2.8/4.0GHz Intel Iris Pro 5200 AMD Radeon R9 M370X 2x8GB DDR3 @ 1600MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
1TB PCIe SSD OS X 10.11.2 El Capitan 15" @ 2880x1800 
  hide details  
Reply
SPEAR
(22 items)
 
Laptop #3
(7 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k @ 4.2ghz ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 Gigabyte WF3 Radeon R9 270X x2 G.Skill Ripjaws X 4x4gb @ 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
OCZ Agility 3 120gb (Linux) OCZ Agility 3 120gb (Windows) WD Caviar Black 2tb Hitachi 500gb 
Optical DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Sony Optiarc LightScribe LaCie external BluRay writer Antec Kühler H2O 920 + Corsair SP120 P/P Arch Linux + radeonsi + E20 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro (Insider release) ASUS VS238H-V @ 70hz Corsair K90 Corsair TX750 V2 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
None CM Storm Recon Altec Lansing ATP3 Creative Aurvana Live! 
OtherOther
Masscool Shin-Etsu G751 ASUS PCE-N10 
CPUGraphicsGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 4980HQ @ 2.8/4.0GHz Intel Iris Pro 5200 AMD Radeon R9 M370X 2x8GB DDR3 @ 1600MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
1TB PCIe SSD OS X 10.11.2 El Capitan 15" @ 2880x1800 
  hide details  
Reply
post #43 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post

Quad channel DDR4 would allow a pretty impressive iGPU, and is where I suspect they're going with future APUs.

However,
You can't have sideport VRAM on an APU; for HSA -as it stands now- to function, the LCU and TCU (CPU and iGPU, in this case) have to be working with a unified memory pool, which is impossible if one is using DDR3/4 and the other is using GDDR5. For GDDR5 to work, the entire APU would need to run off it.

Enter stage left, Playstation 4, containing GDDR5 for the whole system wink.gif

the ps4 is better equiped easier for HSA than the Xbox One.

edit: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/164934-xbox-one-bus-bandwidths-graphics-capabilities-and-odd-soc-architecture-confirmed-by-microsoft is interesting technical article, actually shows the SRAM cache being used...
Edited by kevinf - 3/3/14 at 10:04am
OC'in beast
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8350 (Vishera) Gigabyte GA-990XA AMD 285X (unreleased) AMD 285X (unreleased) 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 8GB (996679) Western Digital WD10EALS 1TB Blue Corsair Force Series GT CSSD-F180GBGT-BK 180GB Intel 530 Series SSDSC2BW240A401 240GB 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Sony 20X Sata DVD-RW Scythe Mugen 2 rev B (3) Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12H-P Antec Tri-Cool 140mm 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Antec Tri-Cool 120mm Scythe Ultra Kaze DFS123812-3000 Windows 7 Pro 64bit ASUS PA248Q 24.1" IPS 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Coolermaster Storm QuickFire Stealth Cherry MX ... Antec Earthwatts EA-750 Antec 300 Logitech G5 
Mouse Pad
Steel Series Starcraft 2 Marine 
  hide details  
Reply
OC'in beast
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8350 (Vishera) Gigabyte GA-990XA AMD 285X (unreleased) AMD 285X (unreleased) 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 8GB (996679) Western Digital WD10EALS 1TB Blue Corsair Force Series GT CSSD-F180GBGT-BK 180GB Intel 530 Series SSDSC2BW240A401 240GB 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Sony 20X Sata DVD-RW Scythe Mugen 2 rev B (3) Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12H-P Antec Tri-Cool 140mm 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Antec Tri-Cool 120mm Scythe Ultra Kaze DFS123812-3000 Windows 7 Pro 64bit ASUS PA248Q 24.1" IPS 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Coolermaster Storm QuickFire Stealth Cherry MX ... Antec Earthwatts EA-750 Antec 300 Logitech G5 
Mouse Pad
Steel Series Starcraft 2 Marine 
  hide details  
Reply
post #44 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinf View Post

Enter stage left, Playstation 4, containing GDDR5 for the whole system wink.gif

the ps4 is better equiped easier for HSA than the Xbox One.

edit: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/164934-xbox-one-bus-bandwidths-graphics-capabilities-and-odd-soc-architecture-confirmed-by-microsoft is interesting technical article, actually shows the SRAM cache being used...

Using GDDR5 seems to work pretty well for the PS4, but I suspect it may be less than optimal for PC, especially mobile: it draws more power than DDR3 and much more than DDR4, and it would have to either be soldered directly to motherboards, or AMD would have to create GDDR5 DIMMs; not to mention cost. None of these are insurmountable problems, certainly, but they do give reason to support DDR4.

The article you linked is interesting; I thought AMD said that the XB1 didn't support hUMA, but that MS slide seems to say the opposite. Speaking of, I wonder how beneficial that ESRAM cache is? Iris Pro's cache is four times the size and seems to lose effectiveness at 1080 and above, though consoles would likely be much better at that.
SPEAR
(22 items)
 
Laptop #3
(7 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k @ 4.2ghz ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 Gigabyte WF3 Radeon R9 270X x2 G.Skill Ripjaws X 4x4gb @ 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
OCZ Agility 3 120gb (Linux) OCZ Agility 3 120gb (Windows) WD Caviar Black 2tb Hitachi 500gb 
Optical DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Sony Optiarc LightScribe LaCie external BluRay writer Antec Kühler H2O 920 + Corsair SP120 P/P Arch Linux + radeonsi + E20 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro (Insider release) ASUS VS238H-V @ 70hz Corsair K90 Corsair TX750 V2 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
None CM Storm Recon Altec Lansing ATP3 Creative Aurvana Live! 
OtherOther
Masscool Shin-Etsu G751 ASUS PCE-N10 
CPUGraphicsGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 4980HQ @ 2.8/4.0GHz Intel Iris Pro 5200 AMD Radeon R9 M370X 2x8GB DDR3 @ 1600MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
1TB PCIe SSD OS X 10.11.2 El Capitan 15" @ 2880x1800 
  hide details  
Reply
SPEAR
(22 items)
 
Laptop #3
(7 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k @ 4.2ghz ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 Gigabyte WF3 Radeon R9 270X x2 G.Skill Ripjaws X 4x4gb @ 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
OCZ Agility 3 120gb (Linux) OCZ Agility 3 120gb (Windows) WD Caviar Black 2tb Hitachi 500gb 
Optical DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Sony Optiarc LightScribe LaCie external BluRay writer Antec Kühler H2O 920 + Corsair SP120 P/P Arch Linux + radeonsi + E20 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro (Insider release) ASUS VS238H-V @ 70hz Corsair K90 Corsair TX750 V2 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
None CM Storm Recon Altec Lansing ATP3 Creative Aurvana Live! 
OtherOther
Masscool Shin-Etsu G751 ASUS PCE-N10 
CPUGraphicsGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 4980HQ @ 2.8/4.0GHz Intel Iris Pro 5200 AMD Radeon R9 M370X 2x8GB DDR3 @ 1600MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
1TB PCIe SSD OS X 10.11.2 El Capitan 15" @ 2880x1800 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Yahoo] AMD Brings Immersive Graphics to Embedded Applications With the New AMD Embedded Radeon(TM) E8860 GPU