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MIONIX AVIOR 7000 First Impressions/Review - Page 92

post #911 of 1929
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I'm far more accurate with it than palm. Palm gives too coarse of control, just feels unnatural for me unless I'm using the mouse to just do work stuff.
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post #912 of 1929
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal571 View Post

I got a lot of flak for saying use whatever CPI you want on another thread. What you should do is use the lowest you can get away with, because the sensor is "most accurate" that way. This is coming from some of the biggest experts left on this forum so I trust them. I play on 400 CPI now at 70cm/360. If 400 isn't enough and you are moving more than one pixel per count from the mouse when you move the mouse very slowly, try 800. Some people say 1600 is "native" but really all steps on the mouse are native up to 5000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Necroblob View Post

Out of interest why did people say low dpi was more accurate? There are a couple of specific situations in which a lower dpi is better: (a) the game doesn't have rawinput so high dpi can lead to negative acceleration (b) the mouse in question performs better on its lower dpi steps. However, I didn't think it was a general rule?

Up until A3090 (included), all optical sensors had one or two native steps, and the rest would be interpolated or discarded counts, which would usually produce artifacts like jitter, pixel walk, angle snapping, or have a lower malfunction speed.

Thus, the settings that yielded better accuracy and consistency used to be the lowest native CPI settings, also providing extra flexibility, since they allowed a number of different sensitivities.

With the newest batch of sensors, the rule of thumb would be to get the CPI higher (but still low enough so it doesn't cause any kind of tracking error) to have more angular granularity in-game, as your sensitivity would be lower.

However, it depends (a lot) on the implementation of the sensor on whether this should be good practice or not.
A sensor that trades image detail for more captures at higher CPI might feel more responsive but less detailed, and on low CPI it might feel more nervous, itchy and noisy but follow your movements more accurately (yet less responsively), which is, I guess, what Falkentyne described on the G502 thread.
post #913 of 1929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMS View Post


Up until A3090 (included), all optical sensors had one or two native steps, and the rest would be interpolated or discarded counts, which would usually produce artifacts like jitter, pixel walk, angle snapping, or have a lower malfunction speed.

Thus, the settings that yielded better accuracy and consistency used to be the lowest native CPI settings, also providing extra flexibility, since they allowed a number of different sensitivities.

With the newest batch of sensors, the rule of thumb would be to get the CPI higher (but still low enough so it doesn't cause any kind of tracking error) to have more angular granularity in-game, as your sensitivity would be lower.

However, it depends (a lot) on the implementation of the sensor on whether this should be good practice or not.
A sensor that trades image detail for more captures at higher CPI might feel more responsive but less detailed, and on low CPI it might feel more nervous, itchy and noisy but follow your movements more accurately (yet less responsively), which is, I guess, what Falkentyne described on the G502 thread.

I think the guy from Logitech said not to use a mouse at a higher CPI than you really *need* and that was his main point. I was of the school that more CPI is better as long as it didn't affect PCS or tracking quality in some way, etc.
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post #914 of 1929
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal571 View Post

I think the guy from Logitech said not to use a mouse at a higher CPI than you really *need* and that was his main point. I was of the school that more CPI is better as long as it didn't affect PCS or tracking quality in some way, etc.

Context :
François Morier was saying that one year ago, so this would apply to products released up until then.

The newest sensors (3310 and 3366) might operate on different principles, since at least Ino's review seems to suggest a consistent MPC speed on all CPI settings :
click
post #915 of 1929
Alright! After two months of waiting I received my Naos 7000
I was pretty exited about this mouse, but in first minute I had figured out that it feels small!!! Yes it feels small to my medium sized hands...
Probably going to sell Mionix and give a try for G502 PROTEUS
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post #916 of 1929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyNetSTI View Post

Alright! After two months of waiting I received my Naos 7000
I was pretty exited about this mouse, but in first minute I had figured out that it feels small!!! Yes it feels small to my medium sized hands...
Probably going to sell Mionix and give a try for G502 PROTEUS

Some people say the G502 isn't that big either actually
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post #917 of 1929
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal571 View Post

I think the guy from Logitech said not to use a mouse at a higher CPI than you really *need* and that was his main point. I was of the school that more CPI is better as long as it didn't affect PCS or tracking quality in some way, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMS View Post

Context :
François Morier was saying that one year ago, so this would apply to products released up until then.

The newest sensors (3310 and 3366) might operate on different principles, since at least Ino's review seems to suggest a consistent MPC speed on all CPI settings :
click


No, he said that the more you cut up the grid to increase the DPI, the worse the tracking becomes. Once the grid is cut up it doesn't really matter which setting you choose if they're all native steps.

Yet they continue to increase DPI and decrease sensor fidelity because flashy high DPI numbers sell to ignorant consumers.

And he said it pretty emphatically, that this is an issue that is impossible to overcome without a 1 foot long mouse. So I really doubt that somehow changed within a year.
Edited by MaximilianKohler - 6/3/14 at 5:33pm
    
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post #918 of 1929
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post


No, he said that the more you cut up the grid to increase the DPI, the worse the tracking becomes. Once the grid is cut up it doesn't really matter which setting you choose if they're all native steps.

Yet they continue to increase DPI and decrease sensor fidelity because flashy high DPI numbers sell to ignorant consumers.

And he said it pretty emphatically, that this is an issue that is impossible to overcome without a 1 foot long mouse. So I really doubt that somehow changed within a year.

I wasn't talking about any of this, so I'm not sure why you would've quoted me. Also, your statements lack precision and/or context, as grid subdivision is a technique that was used on previous sensor designs. I'm not too sure if it still applies to newer models. If it doesn't, we might have a surprise laser sensor sooner than later.

If you have an issue with manufacturers raising CPI, that's your battle, not mine.
Higher CPI allows for lower in-game sensitivity multiplier, and thus more angular granularity, all using the same overall sensitivity. So there's a potential benefit for higher CPI on low sensitivity players.

However, one sensor can only output a number of megapixels per unit of time, so the manufacturer needs to decide on either having higher resolution image samples or more FPS (afaik on old sensor designs image resolution was fixed, there's a chance new models don't have that limitation).

I guess that the feeling you describe with the MLT04 is about the lack of compromise of having only one CPI step : you can tweak and force the sensor to give the number of FPS and image resolution for a very specific task, thus achieving optimal results when manipulated within the projected usage range, which is too poor for most of nowadays needs.
post #919 of 1929
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMS View Post

I wasn't talking about any of this, so I'm not sure why you would've quoted me. Also, your statements lack precision and/or context, as grid subdivision is a technique that was used on previous sensor designs. I'm not too sure if it still applies to newer models. If it doesn't, we might have a surprise laser sensor sooner than later.

If you have an issue with manufacturers raising CPI, that's your battle, not mine.
Higher CPI allows for lower in-game sensitivity multiplier, and thus more angular granularity, all using the same overall sensitivity. So there's a potential benefit for higher CPI on low sensitivity players.

However, one sensor can only output a number of megapixels per unit of time, so the manufacturer needs to decide on either having higher resolution image samples or more FPS (afaik on old sensor designs image resolution was fixed, there's a chance new models don't have that limitation).

I guess that the feeling you describe with the MLT04 is about the lack of compromise of having only one CPI step : you can tweak and force the sensor to give the number of FPS and image resolution for a very specific task, thus achieving optimal results when manipulated within the projected usage range, which is too poor for most of nowadays needs.

Disagree on potential benefit of higher CPI. Even assuming the last pair of sensor releases have new techniques that somehow do not degrade tracking performance whatsoever as CPI is pushed many multiples past the raw image resolution (would like to hear more on how this is done), you're still sacrificing angular control to increase precision that typically is not going lead to any real-world benefits. I don't see how the trade-off is worth it.

Also I could be wrong on this but I thought I read some of these sensors have dynamic FPS limits to regulate bandwidth at different CPI steps. Is that not the case?
post #920 of 1929
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmr1 View Post

Disagree on potential benefit of higher CPI. Even assuming the last pair of sensor releases have new techniques that somehow do not degrade tracking performance whatsoever as CPI is pushed many multiples past the raw image resolution (would like to hear more on how this is done), you're still sacrificing angular control to increase precision that typically is not going lead to any real-world benefits. I don't see how the trade-off is worth it.

Also I could be wrong on this but I thought I read some of these sensors have dynamic FPS limits to regulate bandwidth at different CPI steps. Is that not the case?

¿How are you sacrificing angular control?
You're changing your in-game control lowering the sensitivity control, thus increasing the granularity and giving more control.

AFAIK, the dynamic FPS limits are to make the sensor perform in a similar way on all the CPI scales.
Edited by DeMS - 6/4/14 at 4:19am
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