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Phenom II beats FX Vishera core for core? - Page 13

post #121 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post

No I've gotten it to 4.7 with a turbo of 4.9 but I don't have good enough cooling to sustain something like that. I needed 1.55v going into it to do that. Plus my ASROCK Extreme9 is screwing with me. Right now I'm completely unable to change settings in the bios or boot with the setting I'd been using for a week that were perfectly stable. After an hour of this crap I just want to punch it in the face.
Well I'll be honest, it really might be a bit of rubbish. I'm pretty sure I got a bum chip. It was scoring 5600 (CPU) in 3DMark11 when overclocked to 4.6 Ghz and 6500 when at the stock 3.9 GHz.
Turn APM Master in the bios to disabled. Possibly throttling. Your Physics score at 4.6Ghz should be around 6,500 in 3D Mark 11. Here see mine-
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7609703
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post #122 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason387 View Post

Turn APM Master in the bios to disabled. Possibly throttling. Your Physics score at 4.6Ghz should be around 6,500 in 3D Mark 11. Here see mine-
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7609703

I doubt its throttling, 12 + 2 power phase design with 6 core cpu. Unless APM would throttle because TDP is exceeding the stock 125w tdp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post

Well I'll be honest, it really might be a bit of rubbish. I'm pretty sure I got a bum chip. It was scoring 5600 (CPU) in 3DMark11 when overclocked to 4.6 Ghz and 6500 when at the stock 3.9 GHz.

What's your NB Core Voltage?
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post #123 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason387 View Post

Turn APM Master in the bios to disabled. Possibly throttling. Your Physics score at 4.6Ghz should be around 6,500 in 3D Mark 11. Here see mine-
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7609703

Oh I can assure you that is off. This was a couple months ago and I did end up resolving it. However right now I literally cannot get the darn thing to boot above stock. I'm rebooting between posts here tying everything I can but it just doesn't make sense..

Also, have you ever had the issue where you reboot to uefi and your keyboard and mouse don't work? It sometimes takes me 3 or more reboots to be able to edit anything because of this.
post #124 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papadope View Post

I doubt its throttling, 12 + 2 power phase design with 6 core cpu. Unless APM would throttle because TDP is exceeding the stock 125w tdp.
APM is known to cause throttling under some circumstances. Keeping your vrm's cool is equally as important when going for serious clocks because its a direct route for thermals to transfer to your socket. Also, the quality of the phases used is more important than the number. Biostar 4+1 970/990 boards can push ridiculous overclocks.
Edited by Overkill - 3/3/14 at 9:32pm
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post #125 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papadope View Post

I doubt its throttling, 12 + 2 power phase design with 6 core cpu. Unless APM would throttle because TDP is exceeding the stock 125w tdp.
What's your NB Core Voltage?

Sorry, I didn't see that. It's set at 1.33v. It seems 1.35 reduces the time it can be stable for in prime95 when I'm pushing it. Dropping down any lower has the same effect.
Edited by cookieboyeli - 3/3/14 at 9:19pm
post #126 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionstorm66 View Post

I tried to replace my 1090t with a 8350, and that lasted like 12 hours. It was noticeable slower, even with all the clock I could get out. I was running the 8350 at a little over 5Ghz, and my 1090t at 4.2 blew it out of the water.

Cool story.
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post #127 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post


That and I'm confused as to why we would compare a 6300 to the thuban and not the 8320/50 that replaced it both as the top-tier chip and in the same general price range.

I'm interested in compute efficiency while operating at a particular "performance level."

Trying to determine whether or not PD actually has higher compute efficiency for a given performance level can't be fairly judged if the workload has to be adjusted to accommodate a chip with a different degree of parallelism. In order to reasonably judge whether or not PD has better compute efficiency for equal performance than thuban, the test conditions need to be as equal as possible, which means, 6 threads vs 6 threads, tuned to deliver similar performance and then tested for power consumption under the workload in question.

Increasing parallelism (provided the workload is scalable) can ALWAYS be used to improve compute efficiency because power requirement changes are logarithmic vs clock speeds. Give me a quad-socket server motherboard and a bunch of bulldozer based opterons and I can overcome haswell compute efficiency AND performance at the same time through fine tuning and under-clocking. The test conditions would have to be different to make this case (64 threaded workload vs 8), which makes it completely bogus, because when the 64 core under-clocked platform is tasked with less parallel workloads (anywhere from 8-63 threads) the performance scales down compared to the haswell. Giving any parallelism advantage in a compute efficiency challenge among hardware removes the ability to distinguish the effects of architecture differences on compute efficiency for a given performance level.



PS: I'm well aware of CMT scaling losses. The shared FPU scheduler is a really hefty bottleneck on PD.

That said, without CMT scaling losses, 5.3ghz would be a pipe dream on a $50 AIO CLC. In a way, the CMT scaling losses are a blessing as they make it possible to beat some better lightly threaded performance out of these chips without running into thermal problems when the occasional parallel workload slips in there.

Got it. But you're missing another factor;

The Ph II design topped out at 6 cores. Due to the cache design and other problems, it could not go higher with a single Die. The new modular design was made to scale indefinitely, far far above the 8 cores it has now.

It's not just about power and compute efficiency, it's about being future proof as well. Sometimes when you hit a wall with one design, it's best to try and not let it happen again. Not to mention, how much easier do you think it is to just say "Ok, we need 2 modules, 2 ram channels, and a link for the igpu we're going to put over there" than to say "Ok, so we need to cut out the L3 and 2 cores to make room for a GPU...".

It's like building with Legos, but for a CPU Die. tongue.gif
Edited by KyadCK - 3/4/14 at 4:38am
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post #128 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionstorm66 View Post

I tried to replace my 1090t with a 8350, and that lasted like 12 hours. It was noticeable slower, even with all the clock I could get out. I was running the 8350 at a little over 5Ghz, and my 1090t at 4.2 blew it out of the water.

Something was terribly wrong with your Vishera setup, I'm going to guess the 8350 was being throttled or the overclock was unstable.
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post #129 of 242
M
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post

Awwwww bummer, shoulda stuck with the 1055t.

I'm using an FX-6350 right now and I'm about to throw it out the window.. even at 4.4GHz it's still bottlenecking some stuff.. mad.gif



No way. If you ditch a 6350 at 4.4 GHz for a 1055T you are going backwards. I have a 1055T. Clocked at 3.9 GHz. My 6300 at 4.25 GHz spanks it in real world usage.
post #130 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Got it. But you're missing another factor;

You're responding out of context. I'm going to assume that you know that there is a different between "missing" something, and "not pointing it out" because it is non-applicable.

I could just as easily say that you "missed" something, and point out that you forgot to include the Russian-Ukrainian conflict and its effects on AMD. It doesn't matter within the context of the comparison I would like to make for the sake of answering a valid question about thuban vs PD.

If I propose a CPU-vs-CPU shootout to determine differences in compute efficiency, it doesn't mean I have blinders on to everything else. If I compromise, and give the "advantage" that the PD architecture depends on by changing the conditions of the test, then I feel I would be "giving in" to the whole "change the game when you don't like the score" concept. As a 3rd party, I have nothing to gain by changing the game for anyone's benefit.
Edited by mdocod - 3/4/14 at 9:28am
     
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