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Phenom II beats FX Vishera core for core? - Page 14

post #131 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Got it. But you're missing another factor;

You're responding out of context. I'm going to assume that you know that there is a different between "missing" something, and "not pointing it out" because it is non-applicable.

I could just as easily say that you "missed" something, and point out that you forgot to include the Russian-Ukrainian conflict and its effects on AMD.

If I propose a CPU-vs-CPU shootout to determine differences in compute efficiency, it doesn't mean I have blinders on to everything else.

Except unlike yours, mine is actually relevant and a legitimate reason to make a design decision that moves something forward, AND has a huge bearing on the actual multithreaded efficiency of the chips in question.

If you would like to test compute efficiency, why are we comparing higher-clocked 6-cores and not more medium clocked 8 cores? It'll make a big difference, especially with the new design, and even more so over 5Ghz and 1.5v, but that's being ignored.

There is no reason to test against only the Vishera 6-core. Ignoring the new design and what it brings to the table is stupid, and eliminating one of the biggest things it can bring to the table; more cores.

So ya, I think you do have some blinders on. Especially when a 5.3Ghz 6300 should match a stock 8350 in multithread, which do you think will be more efficient at it?
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post #132 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post

M
No way. If you ditch a 6350 at 4.4 GHz for a 1055T you are going backwards. I have a 1055T. Clocked at 3.9 GHz. My 6300 at 4.25 GHz spanks it in real world usage.
Glad someone who has used both chips can actually speak up smile.gif
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post #133 of 242
Kyad,

By the standard you propose, Zambezi can have higher compute efficiency than haswell. I will not stoop to changing the conditions of the game in order to pervert the outcome of a test so radically.

I've already explained why I refuse to consider an 8 core vs 6 core comparison for compute efficiency. It de-legitimizes the focus on whether or not the new architecture actually achieves higher compute efficiency for a given performance level.


If the goal is compute efficiency with no limitations of parallelism, then the compute efficiency of the architecture becomes pointless and irrelevant. Whether or not an FX-8350@4ghz is more compute efficient than an FX-6300@5ghz is irrelevant as it is an answer to a DIFFERENT question than the one I have proposed we test. We already know that parallelism increases compute efficiency. I don't need to perform a test to prove this.
Edited by mdocod - 3/4/14 at 10:47am
     
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post #134 of 242
Not enough time to read all posts right now but wanted to post a few thoughts and errors for the test. Instruction sets! FX has newer instruction sets and one particular one missing which explains the Wprime diff X87. Visheras need the Slilt fix to get true results.
post #135 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by atminside View Post

Its well known that the P2 stuff is better single threaded than FX, but games are on their way toward using 6/8 threads now.

Opteron definitely sounds good for you.

doesn't that require a special server socket?
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post #136 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdoublejj View Post

doesn't that require a special server socket?

It is a different socket, yes. But when you can get 2x16-core (or 4x16-core) chips on one motherboard it helps for multi-threaded (if you can use that many threads)
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post #137 of 242
yes but, aren't' those high core chips SUB 3ghz?
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post #138 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

Kyad,

By the standard you propose, Zambezi can have higher compute efficiency than haswell. I will not stoop to changing the conditions of the game in order to pervert the outcome of a test so radically.

I've already explained why I refuse to consider an 8 core vs 6 core comparison for compute efficiency. It de-legitimizes the focus on whether or not the new architecture actually achieves higher compute efficiency for a given performance level.


If the goal is compute efficiency with no limitations of parallelism, then the compute efficiency of the architecture becomes pointless and irrelevant. Whether or not an FX-8350@4ghz is more compute efficient than an FX-6300@5ghz is irrelevant as it is an answer to a DIFFERENT question than the one I have proposed we test.


Then do it one core vs one core for single-threaded efficiency, and do it again max cores vs max cores for multi-threaded efficiency.

Unless you plan to rattle off a dozen multithreaded programs that only go to 6 cores (good luck with that), in which case by all means. Otherwise limiting yourself to 6 (and only 6) is, again, stupid. And besides that, and 8350 will be better at 6-core applications than a 6300 anyway because it would remove some of the decoder bottleneck, making the 8350 a "5.2 core" and the 6300 a "4.8 core".

Compute efficiency is about far more than per-core capability. If you're testing for single-threaded things, use one core. If you're testing for 3-4 core Xbox ports, use that many cores. If you're testing multi-threaded workloads, use all the cores you've got and if you're testing advancements in technology give it everything you've got.

You have simply added arbitrary limitations to ONE of the architectures you're comparing for no reason. It's just as bad as people who want to compare Vishera and Thuban clock for clock and ignore the fact Vishera can go much faster. It's a completely useless metric because it doesn't even begin to tell the whole story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdoublejj View Post

yes but, aren't' those high core chips SUB 3ghz?

Say hello to the Opteron 6386 SE

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-Opteron%206386%20SE%20-%20OS6386YETGGHK.html

At 16 cores and a 3.2Ghz base clock and 3.5Ghz half-core turbo, she's a beaut'. tongue.gif
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post #139 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Then do it one core vs one core for single-threaded efficiency, and do it again max cores vs max cores for multi-threaded efficiency.

Unless you plan to rattle off a dozen multithreaded programs that only go to 6 cores (good luck with that), in which case by all means. Otherwise limiting yourself to 6 (and only 6) is, again, stupid. And besides that, and 8350 will be better at 6-core applications than a 6300 anyway because it would remove some of the decoder bottleneck, making the 8350 a "5.2 core" and the 6300 a "4.8 core".

Compute efficiency is about far more than per-core capability. If you're testing for single-threaded things, use one core. If you're testing for 3-4 core Xbox ports, use that many cores. If you're testing multi-threaded workloads, use all the cores you've got and if you're testing advancements in technology give it everything you've got.

You have simply added arbitrary limitations to ONE of the architectures you're comparing for no reason. It's just as bad as people who want to compare Vishera and Thuban clock for clock and ignore the fact Vishera can go much faster. It's a completely useless metric because it doesn't even begin to tell the whole story.
Say hello to the Opteron 6386 SE

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-Opteron%206386%20SE%20-%20OS6386YETGGHK.html

At 16 cores and a 3.2Ghz base clock and 3.5Ghz half-core turbo, she's a beaut'. tongue.gif

do they have lower core Opterons with higher core clocks?
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post #140 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post

No I've gotten it to 4.7 with a turbo of 4.9 but I don't have good enough cooling to sustain something like that. I needed 1.55v going into it to do that. Plus my ASROCK Extreme9 is screwing with me. Right now I'm completely unable to change settings in the bios or boot with the setting I'd been using for a week that were perfectly stable. After an hour of this crap I just want to punch it in the face.
Well I'll be honest, it really might be a bit of rubbish. I'm pretty sure I got a bum chip. It was scoring 5600 (CPU) in 3DMark11 when overclocked to 4.6 Ghz and 6500 when at the stock 3.9 GHz.

EDIT: Got my numbers jumbled, 6500 is obviously not possible @ 3.9

Hrmm, something is amiss with the chip or your componentry. 6350's I've encountered have been able to reach 5 GHz with a bit of effort, but do need approximately the voltage you're describing. They really, really shine when they get to 5 GHz.
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