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Phenom II beats FX Vishera core for core? - Page 18

post #171 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

I can put a thousand Pentium 4s in a room, make a cluster computer out of them. The Pentium 4 architecture does not prevent nor enable this parallelism.

Having a "cluster" of cores by having a bunch of the same chip in a room and having a cluster of cores on the actual die are two completely different things. As the guy above me said, how would those Pentium's be connected? Point being that the architecture itself -- how efficient it is, how it's synthesized, directly correlates to how many cores they could fit onto the die itself, thereby directly affecting performance in the end. The original Bulldozer design was scrapped because despite it "working", it was way slower than what they already had, thus it got delayed for a long time. I also heard it was a power guzzler too, moreso than the Zambezi we ended up getting. If the uarch isn't efficient enough, they couldn't fit as many cores because it'd use up too much power, therefore they'd have to drop the amount of cores to have a decent balance. Then there's yields to take into consideration, etc.

So yes, core count and therefore parallelism can be directly affected by the architecture's power/space efficiency. It's never as simple as just throwing more cores onto a die and calling it a day. L3 cache alone on these chips takes up almost half the die space, adding another module means even more L3, which means an even more massive die. That would lead to more expensive wafers and a higher possibility of yield issues, all things that wouldn't be worth it at all.
post #172 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

But how do you network them? biggrin.gif

You all talk as if throwing a bunch of cores on a big chip is easy, but it's quite difficult. Just look at all the trouble Intel had with the Xeon Phi and all the predecessors.

I said put them in the same room, not on the same chip. Cluster based super computers have been a big deal now for over a decade, starting when Virginia tech made a seriously competitive (ranked in the top 10 of all super computers in the world) cluster super computer in 2003 out of, if my memory serves me correctly, Apple Pro Towers, later revised to rack-mount Apple servers.

Cloud based compute is highly salable now, it's a purchasable resource. The parallelism afforded by these technologies has little to nothing to do with fitting cores on a piece of silicon. I shouldn't even have to point this out, I'm sure everyone here knows this. (though I guess not?)

I was experimenting with clustering software over 100Mbit with a bunch of old single core machines back in 2002. Parallelism has nothing to do with what fits on a chip. Workloads that are highly scalable (compiling, scientific/bio/math research etc) don't need much bandwidth. Look at folding, BOINC projects, etc.
Edited by mdocod - 3/5/14 at 4:31pm
     
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post #173 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

I said put them in the same room, not on the same chip. Cluster based super computers have been a big deal now for over a decade, starting when Virginia tech made a seriously competitive (ranked in the top 10 of all super computers in the world) cluster super computer in 2003 out of, if my memory serves me correctly, Apple Pro Towers, later revised to rack-mount Apple servers.

Cloud based compute is highly salable now, it's a purchasable resource. The parallelism afforded by these technologies has little to nothing to do with fitting cores on a piece of silicon. I shouldn't even have to point this out, I'm sure everyone here knows this.


They used G5 towers then made the transition to the G5 Xserve.
post #174 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

I said put them in the same room, not on the same chip. Cluster based super computers have been a big deal now for over a decade, starting when Virginia tech made a seriously competitive (ranked in the top 10 of all super computers in the world) cluster super computer in 2003 out of, if my memory serves me correctly, Apple Pro Towers, later revised to rack-mount Apple servers.

Cloud based compute is highly salable now, it's a purchasable resource. The parallelism afforded by these technologies has little to nothing to do with fitting cores on a piece of silicon. I shouldn't even have to point this out, I'm sure everyone here knows this. (though I guess not?)

I was experimenting with clustering software over 100Mbit with a bunch of old single core machines back in 2002. Parallelism has nothing to do with what fits on a chip. Workloads that are highly scalable (compiling, scientific/bio/math research etc) don't need much bandwidth. Look at folding, BOINC projects, etc.

Yeah, but I wasn't talking about cluster/cloud-based parallelism, I was talking about on a per-chip basis. It's no secret that "parallelism" exists in many forms, but I was originally talking about the single socket/chip aspect.

Also, there's no need for condescending remarks like this:
Quote:
I shouldn't even have to point this out, I'm sure everyone here knows this. (though I guess not?)

This is a site primarily about overclocking hardware components and its culture, and from what I've observed here in my brief tenure, most people have little-to-know knowledge of such things, nor do they really care. I'm well-aware of the cluster/cloud-based system configs out there in the enterprise world, but that wasn't the focus of my posts.
post #175 of 242
Naroon,

I have edited my prior post for clarity.
     
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post #176 of 242
Lets recap:

  1. Post 3rd party result showing that PD uses less power when overclocked than thuban.
  2. 3rd party test result is questioned for legitimacy.
  3. Proposal to perform independent testing to determine if PD cores are more compute efficient when tuned to the same performance as thuban cores is proposed.
  4. Proposed testing and any results of such a test are deemed irrelevant because of parallelism.


Sorry, I'm done. Lunacy.

Yall have fun with it I'm out. I've effectively been told that my "question" is not welcome among OCN. Therefor I can assume that the answer is also not welcome.
Edited by mdocod - 3/5/14 at 4:40pm
     
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post #177 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post

I call bullcrap on this. There is now way a 1090T at 4.2 GHz blows a 8350 at 5 GHz "out of the water". If you even managed to get an 8350 to over 5 GHz stable.

Check my post history, I have a chilled water loop, I was running -5~0C under load at 5Ghz, with about 1.52v. The 1090t needs a bit more voltage for 4.2Gh, but is faster clock for clock, and cooler to boot. I never get over 0C under load with the new plumbing setup. There isn't really any games that even use 6 cores let alone 8, so the extra cores are moot. There are some cases where 8 might help, but the faster 6 cores is better. I stream my games some times, and that is pushing the 1090t to its computing limit with a modern game. Arma 3 running a listen server and streaming is running 85~95% CPU.
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post #178 of 242
heres some more proof that the Phenom II is faster than the FX.

(I have both) my 1090T @ 3.84Ghz (mem @800), beats my 8320 @ 4.1 Ghz (mem @866)

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/1806428/fs/1482442

it was a bigger spread without tweaking. the the 8320 barely broke 6200 at 4.0 ghz
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post #179 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRusselo View Post

heres some more proof that the Phenom II is faster than the FX.

(I have both) my 1090T @ 3.84Ghz (mem @800), beats my 8320 @ 4.1 Ghz (mem @866)

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/1806428/fs/1482442

it was a bigger spread without tweaking. the the 8320 barely broke 6200 at 4.0 ghz

Graphics score is higher on the Phenom II system (higher video memory bus clock), but the Physics score is higher on the FX-8320 system (8097 vs. 7850).

Sorry bud, but that means the FX-8320 is the faster CPU in that case. Always check the Physics score for CPU performance, not the overall 3DMark score.
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post #180 of 242
Let's even the playing field a little bit.

How about a dirty run on my system with no optimizations, an 8320 @ 4.7Ghz (24/7 stable), and a bone stock GTX 780 against your optimized 1090T.

Of course the 780 is going to be faster, but what about the CPU?

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/1820181/fs/1482442

FX 8320 @ 4.7Ghz: 8942
1090T @ 3.8Ghz: 7850

I'll keep my FX 8320 over your 1090T. thumb.gif
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Windows 10 Pro Dell S2716DG (1440p, 144hz Gsync) AOC U3477 PQU (3440x1440 IPS) Logitech G810 Orion Spectrum 
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Evga SuperNOVA 750 G2 NZXT Phantom 530 Black Logitech G502 Proteus Core Corsair MM400 
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Creative Sound Blaster E5 DAC/AMP Sennheiser HD 598 Headphones HyperX Cloud Headset 
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