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Phenom II beats FX Vishera core for core? - Page 21

post #201 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Actually, I am going to have to side with Kyad here. He is no slouch with the FX and WHAT IT CAN DO. And the point which if you posted the whole post was in fact a point that in order to match his, rather topple his FX the phenom/thuban would have to be clocked to 5.17Ghz. And that point brings up the most common fact and understanding: 24/7 max OC on those was ion the 4.4-4.5Ghz with 4.2Ghz being more common. Fact is no matter how you stack it, here on OCN it will always be avg potential pitted against one another not clock to clock. Though I am sure you are aware Kyad concedes that clock to clock phenom/thuban wins single core, but that argument is grossly invalid when you take stock to stock and where most are OCed to.

FYI: My proposed hardware comparison, was performance-tuned vs performance tuned, (not clock vs clock), and our debate had absolutely nothing to do with single threaded IPC. The "point" that you are making, in an attempt to justify taking sides, does not take a "side" in any debate that I have participated in here.

I believe that you have sided with a general distaste for my character. An entirely valid distaste perhaps. Based on your attempt to reinforce the "tuned-vs-tuned"/"stock-vs-stock" debate it occurs to me that you are oblivious to the context of the debate that Kyad and I were having. You've sided with him for the sake of siding against me. (for the record, I'm perfectly alright with your favoritism that is unrelated to the context of the debate, but am compelled to point it out).
     
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post #202 of 242
Given the same cooling my Thubans as mighty as they are and as good as the individual samples of them I have are, they can't match the performance of my 8 core Vishera's in the majority of cases. I don't think there is a single bench that I have been able to beat the Vish with my Thubans.

My best scores in CB 15 on identical cooling are in this spreadsheet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Avrck3jWivLcdC14MnV4U2JReWpwRExxc0FRZTZEa0E&gid=7

Highest validation I can find for the Thuban on all cores is 4613mhz vs 5740mhz on the Vishera.
HIghest benchable clock for my Vishera's was north of 5545mhz, Thubans was around 4.6ghz.

The numbers only go so far though, the Vishera's ability to be lightning fast for the things I do every day is unmatched by any other rig I own be it other amd's the I5 or even my I7's.

I see the point of the conversation, core vs core/module and that is why I'm not confident recommending an upgrade from an X6 thuban to an X6 Vishera in all situations. However I don't know how anyone could not recognize the overall performance advantage the 8 core Vishera's have over the X6 Thuban/Zosma's
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post #203 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

I see the point of the conversation, core vs core/module and that is why I'm not confident recommending an upgrade from an X6 thuban to an X6 Vishera in all situations. However I don't know how anyone could not recognize the overall performance advantage the 8 core Vishera's have over the X6 Thuban/Zosma's

There is plenty of confusion when it comes to vishera chips and the modular arch altogether-just take a look around these forums and the amount of "gee, FX-8xx0 has only 4 FPU" posts and the like. This very thread is a testament to this, there are lots of people that really believe thuban not only is a match for vishera but a better processor overall. Your experience however, resonates with me. I am a traditional intel customer and a recent AMD "convert" (in the sense that I actually bought my first AMD cpu) -it happened after I tested a vishera octocore.
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post #204 of 242
ucbench2011 on what could be everyday clocks on my watercooled 9370.

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post #205 of 242
Benchmarks and IPC only tell half the story. BD/PD have a far more versatile FPU and support a greater variety of modern instruction sets. Piledriver will beat Stars core for core and clock for clock in BF4. Why? Probably because BF4 uses FMA operations, something Phenom II CPUs have no support for.

Going forward Stars will only become worse relative to Piledriver for this reason. Stars is old and nobody develops games with it in mind. Haswell and Piledriver support similar ISAs, so developers can develop games with those architectures in mind.

Cinebench/wprime etc are useless. I really hate benchmarks because they prove absolutely nothing in the real world.
post #206 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by malpais View Post

Cinebench/wprime etc are useless. I really hate benchmarks because they prove absolutely nothing in the real world.


Quote: "CINEBENCH is based on MAXON's award-winning animation software CINEMA 4D, which is used extensively by studios and production houses worldwide for 3D content creation. MAXON software has been used in blockbuster movies such as Iron Man 3, Oblivion, Life of Pi or Prometheus and many more." - http://www.maxon.net/products/cinebench/overview.html

A benchmark based on a a real program or game, absolutely DOES prove real world performance in that program or game.

The only benchmarks, that do not proportionally translate to real world performance differences, are RAW synthetics, like measured cache bandwidth, measured latency, measured system memory bandwidth, etc. These types of benchmarks DO offer insight and tend to point to the same trends one might expect, but they can't be used to easily extrapolate specific performance in actual workloads.
Edited by mdocod - 3/8/14 at 9:32am
     
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post #207 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by malpais View Post

Benchmarks and IPC only tell half the story. BD/PD have a far more versatile FPU and support a greater variety of modern instruction sets. Piledriver will beat Stars core for core and clock for clock in BF4. Why? Probably because BF4 uses FMA operations, something Phenom II CPUs have no support for.

Going forward Stars will only become worse relative to Piledriver for this reason. Stars is old and nobody develops games with it in mind. Haswell and Piledriver support similar ISAs, so developers can develop games with those architectures in mind.

Cinebench/wprime etc are useless. I really hate benchmarks because they prove absolutely nothing in the real world.

Seems like I've been saying this alot lately , benchmarking programs are only really good for tweaking your system not for comparing different ones.

The very premise of a benchmark is so far away from normal use it calls into question it's validity for measuring owner experience . Benchmarking allows the machine to concentrate it's efforts on a single application. Last time I looked I have 6 programs running and over 100 processes on this machine . Measuring a single core cpu's performance as it relates to every day use it would be at it's most relevant( and absolutely questionable) , but the more cores we have coupled with the multiple programs we run simultaneously , quickly makes running benchmarking programs dubious endeavor at best and nearly valueless at the worst.
If you have a workload that you do that correlates directly to a benchmark and if you do that activity for a great percentage of the time you use your rig, only then are they really useful for comparing across platforms.
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post #208 of 242
CONCLUSION
Phenom II X6 = FX 63**.
FX 83** > Phenom II x6
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post #209 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason387 View Post

CONCLUSION
Phenom II X6 = FX 63**.
FX 83** > Phenom II x6

Pretty much. It's not rocket science, and I have no idea why this thread is as big as it is (though I didn't bother to read the whole thing, because when I saw the post count rise dramatically over a very short amount of time, I knew instantly that a flame-war must've happened.)
post #210 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabiovtec View Post

why you use 950mhz gpu clock with fx 8320 and 1100mhz with x6?tongue.gif
The x6 wins in physics but what about Graphics Score?
8320 + 7950 950mhz = 7689
x6 + 7950 1100mhz =7605
the x6 is bottlenecking the 7950

i am not saying that the thuban is stronger than the 8300 but difference in graphics scores can happen in multiple runs, difference in driver used, etc. look at the combined scores.
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