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[seekingalpha] Advanced Micro Devices Is Moving Away From 20nm, Rejoice Or Despair? - Page 7

post #61 of 73
Quote:

Thanks for the link, it further clarifies the hunches I was having.
post #62 of 73
Ludicrous articles. TSMC already manufactures Apple 20nm CPUs. Samsung is also starting the same CPU in April. That means, GPUs are possible in good and mass production yields at minimum from August.

20nm GPUs are possible between Summer and Christmas whatever the shills are saying. Most of them are 20 year old children that assume stuff out of thin air and play journalist.

Let alone also Intel goes 14nm between Summer and Christmas, it's the absolute worst period to buy anything current. It's like those moments in gambling you sort of have the urge to "win" and then you fail. That's it now.

I suspect those articles may also have the goal to keep sales going now, shilling for them. Or it's just children trying to play journalist for affiliate clicks.
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post #63 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

Ludicrous articles. TSMC already manufactures Apple 20nm CPUs. Samsung is also starting the same CPU in April. That means, GPUs are possible in good and mass production yields at minimum from August.

20nm GPUs are possible between Summer and Christmas whatever the shills are saying. Most of them are 20 year old children that assume stuff out of thin air and play journalist.

Let alone also Intel goes 14nm between Summer and Christmas, it's the absolute worst period to buy anything current. It's like those moments in gambling you sort of have the urge to "win" and then you fail. That's it now.

I suspect those articles may also have the goal to keep sales going now, shilling for them. Or it's just children trying to play journalist for affiliate clicks.

Maybe you should try reading the article. There are two different manufacturing processes for low power (mobile) and high performance. Right now, TSMC and GF both have issues doing high performance on 20nm. While 20nm mobile GPUs are certainly possible, 20nm high performance GPUs are questionable at best.

Edit: It actually doesn't say it in this article, but a similar, more detailed article is found here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1474118/techsoda-waiting-on-20nm-graphics-cards-from-nvidia-and-amd-don-t-bother
Edited by Tsumi - 3/19/14 at 11:47am
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post #64 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

Ludicrous articles. TSMC already manufactures Apple 20nm CPUs. Samsung is also starting the same CPU in April. That means, GPUs are possible in good and mass production yields at minimum from August.

20nm GPUs are possible between Summer and Christmas whatever the shills are saying. Most of them are 20 year old children that assume stuff out of thin air and play journalist.

Let alone also Intel goes 14nm between Summer and Christmas, it's the absolute worst period to buy anything current. It's like those moments in gambling you sort of have the urge to "win" and then you fail. That's it now.

I suspect those articles may also have the goal to keep sales going now, shilling for them. Or it's just children trying to play journalist for affiliate clicks.

Difference between TSMC and Intel is customers. Intel can produce for themselves, TSMC takes orders from multiple customers. On top of that, a GPU with as many transistors as they've got in them now is monumentally more complex than the SoCs in smartphones. I imagine it takes much longer to validate the process for GPU designs given the size of the chips.

Plus look at the economy of the things. Apple and other chip designers would likely have deeper pockets to pay TSMC for manufacturing priority, not to mention the fact that their order volume most easily trumps that of chips for discrete GPUs.

Maybe we'll get lucky and see some December launches.
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post #65 of 73
As Long as I Get an Excavator AM4 or whatever CPU with PCIe 3.0 USB 3.0 and DDR4 on a Nice New Chipset, I dont care if it's 28nm or 20 nm.

I have no problems keeping 3 Eight-core machines cool, 20nm and lower power is not a primary concern.
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post #66 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

TSMC and GF both have issues doing high performance on 20nm

EVERYONE takes a few months to perfect a shrink, ALWAYS. That's not news, that's routine. That's why I said August onwards and not now. They burn 20nm now for Apple as we speak. Or write, whatever.

Also it's likely it's a promotional deal with NVDIA/AMD to not get people excited and let them buying the refreshes of old technology they sell now.

Also GF is way behind. Nobody takes contracts with them over TSMC anymore.

In general, if you don't see 20nm products by the end of 2014 be very surprised, on GPUs. Those aren't "problems" that are random as you imply, they KNOW very soon it will be ready. As I said it's practically routine for spans of months.
Edited by fateswarm - 3/20/14 at 1:46pm
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post #67 of 73
Isn't that because TSMC is only pushing for mobile with the 20nm process so far? I guess it will be a late adoption for GPU makers. Gotta love Intel in moments like this. Sure they don't make GPUs but CPU-wise, its hard to beat. thumb.gif
post #68 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

EVERYONE takes a few months to perfect a shrink, ALWAYS. That's not news, that's routine. That's why I said August onwards and not now. They burn 20nm now for Apple as we speak. Or write, whatever.

Also it's likely it's a promotional deal with NVDIA/AMD to not get people excited and let them buying the refreshes of old technology they sell now.

Also GF is way behind. Nobody takes contracts with them over TSMC anymore.

In general, if you don't see 20nm products by the end of 2014 be very surprised, on GPUs. Those aren't "problems" that are random as you imply, they KNOW very soon it will be ready. As I said it's practically routine for spans of months.

Click the link in my post, and read.
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post #69 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

but I have serious doubts that it's practical, especially given Hawaii's heat issues.

A lot of that came down to AMD essentially reusing the HD7970 cooler on the R9 290X and R9 290, with a good cooler they run a lot better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreatsquare View Post

If AMD sticks with 28nm for their GPUs when Nvidia moves to 20nm, somebody in the GPU business is going to get stomped. Either AMD will have under performing GPUs that can't hold a candle to Nvidia's die shrunk Maxwells or Nvidia will have yield problems and AMD would be the plentiful option for consumers. The only problem with the second scenario would be the miners eating up AMD stock, so shortages for gamers all around then. In that case, it is a good time for Nvidia to move to 20nm either way.

I'm waiting for the next round of GPU die shrinks, so I'm not at all happy about delays in that area.

It depends on how conservative nVidia is with die sizes on 20nm, honestly...If they don't go big enough then they'll likely have more efficient cards than AMD but won't be as fast but if they go too big it could be that they'd have Fermi 2.0. (Remember last time they went to a new node quickly? Fermi was it, AMD released a 40nm "pipe-cleaner" HD4770 to work through issues. I wouldn't be surprised (Although I do doubt it) if we get a Pitcairn style GCN 1.1 GPU on 20nm by the end of this year for AMD to do a relatively cheap 20nm GPU and ensure that any big issues that crop up in regards to yields, etc can be mostly mitigated to keep the R9 390X or whatever it'll be fine to launch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Why is it bad to compare the two? It's hashes per Watt. Both of those should scale roughly linearly within the same architecture. Kx/ky = x/y, right? For two values k (Hawaii or GCN 1.1 and Maxwell or GM107) it's a good comparison.

By that logic, Bonaire should have very similar hashes per watt as Hawaii or Pitcairn to Tahiti yet going by the Litecoin Mining Hardware Comparison, a HD7870 gets around 400kH/s at 200w while a HD7970 can get up to 760kH/s at 270w to use some random examples...That's not even close. I can even confirm it honestly, my girlfriend has a HD7850 and I have a HD7950, the HD7950 puts out way more heat and uses way more watts while not really being that much faster than the HD7850 in gaming. Generally that's true of larger GPUs in general in my experience...
Edited by Brutuz - 3/20/14 at 8:17pm
    
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post #70 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

Click the link in my post, and read.

Read that they had problems that was now debunked with new news that they fixed them?

As I said perfecting a process for yields is routine.

What you hear is nonsense from competitors or their own, trying to sell you their 2-3 year old products nobody will want soon.
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