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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 109  

post #1081 of 1593
This is the AMD forum people! Let's not start a pointless flame wars! We need to look at where AMD is going not where it's been! The real problem is that instruction sets under the right environments behave differently! That's why AMD processors run Mantle so amazingly! I'm not joking! Check out the AMD CPU Mantle benchmarks! AMD isn't weak under it's native instruction sets. Screw traditional x86 it's a dead end road! Why do you think Intel is making ARM processors now? Why do you think AMD is designing HSA? Hybridized x86 is the only future evolution of the x86 platform that is feasible.
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post #1082 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinaesthetic View Post

This exact thread has shown up time and time again within the past few years. And it ends the exact same way. And it only goes on and on because of a few people that just can't accept reality.

Search function is your friend. The sheer fact that this thread has gone on this long is quite ridiculous. I'd throw in a vote that its about time this is locked since it has run its course like every other thread that has gone over the exact same thing.
There is actually another recent thread like this,we couldn't have a nice discussion there either,and it went up in flames.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Fixed for you
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157460
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116899
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231665
Total : 431.97
Think of it this way. You buy an 8350 and there's no upgrade path. You buy a 4670K and you can get a 4770K down the road for more performance.
Amd has effectively given up on Socket AM3+. No chips are coming this year
So, you have to choose some terrible Asrock board to even come close in price? Wow,really? Also,4770K isn't much of an upgrade unless you really need hyperthreading for a few specific tasks,also like others have said the 4770K doesn't even overclock very well,unless you're lucky and have a "golden" CPU.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113285
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128514
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231653 Total- $363.98
Do you have solid proof that AMD "gave up" on AM3+? Did AMD say it officially? I've read those articles saying "oh noes AMD hasn't made a AM3+ processor for a while,there's no new AM3+ on this fake/old roadmap they must have given up".
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

This is the AMD forum people! Let's not start a pointless flame wars! We need to look at where AMD is going not where it's been! The real problem is that instruction sets under the right environments behave differently! That's why AMD processors run Mantle so amazingly! I'm not joking! Check out the AMD CPU Mantle benchmarks! AMD isn't weak under it's native instruction sets. Screw traditional x86 it's a dead end road! Why do you think Intel is making ARM processors now? Why do you think AMD is designing HSA? Hybridized x86 is the only future evolution of the x86 platform that is feasible.
I agree 100%. It happens every time on the AMD forum,say a certain AMD processor is viable for mid-end tasks & games and you have a ton of people telling you it somehow isn't and you're stupid for not having bought Intel.
Why do you think everyone is jumping on the Mantle train? Nvidia themselves didn't confirm anything but said they will be more open to the API. MS is concerned with the change Mantle has made so DX12 will fix CPU optimization to an extent. Intel sells the most in tablets and laptops,AMD sells the most laptops and APU's,the only ones buying the FX 83xx and unlocked core i5's/i7's are us enthusiasts.
Edited by Heavy MG - 3/30/14 at 11:10pm
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post #1083 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post

There is actually another recent thread like this,we couldn't have a nice discussion there either,and it went up in flames.
So, you have to choose some terrible Asrock board to even come close in price? Wow,really? Also,4770K isn't much of an upgrade unless you really need hyperthreading for a few specific tasks,also like others have said the 4770K doesn't even overclock very well,unless you're lucky and have a "golden" CPU.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113285
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128514
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231653 Total- $363.98
Do you have solid proof that AMD "gave up" on AM3+? Did AMD say it officially? I've read those articles saying "oh noes AMD hasn't made a AM3+ processor for a while,there's no new AM3+ on this fake/old roadmap they must have given up".
I agree 100%. It happens every time on the AMD forum,say a certain AMD processor is viable for mid-end tasks & games and you have a ton of people telling you it somehow isn't and you're stupid for not having bought Intel.
Why do you think everyone is jumping on the Mantle train? Nvidia themselves didn't confirm anything but said they will be more open to the API. MS is concerned with the change Mantle has made so DX12 will fix CPU optimization to an extent. Intel sells the most in tablets and laptops,AMD sells the most laptops and APU's,the only ones buying the FX 83xx and unlocked core i5's/i7's are us enthusiasts.
Well, don't pick the wrong device for the right feature set. One funny remark I came across was that risc architecture code was more streamlined than cisc; however the contrary for memory footprint. Cisc might have surmounted when they both came out due to memory scarcity, but right now they are on equal ground.
Imho, Intel is best in mainstream pc; however multimedia experience is AMD's ball game and when it comes to just streaming videos and text on the internet, Qualcomm really delivers the mobility.
Technology is expansively moving forward. You can just stream most games online, given that there are pros playing better than you are - it is quite entertaining. You just don't need a desktop personal computer unless you are going to set up your own server, as in streaming your own games, imho. In that sense, I think the mainstream has moved to the mobility. The desktop has been rendered as personal server. I can go days without opening up my desktop pc and I feel dissociated from it. Even netbooks are sufficient with portability. You can just lug it around.
Edited by mtcn77 - 3/31/14 at 12:36am
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post #1084 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

You know full well that this is completely garbage...

Haswell has about 20-25% OCing headroom. And that's for 24/7 usage, not suicide runs with too much voltage. In order to reach the same OC levels a 9590 (which you keep wanting the review sites to use in benches to mislead people into thinking that the AMD chips actually stand a chance) would have to reach 5.7-5.9GHz. For 24/7 usage. Not possible.

Tbh I am not sure what "too much voltage" exactly is, besides affecting total consumption. Haswell most definitely can hit the numbers you say but at what cost? There are degradation reports left and right (even this forum has a relevant thread), I don't recall Sandy causing such a commotion.
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post #1085 of 1593
This thread has kept me busy for last couple of weeks and yet it's the same as before. Durquavian gave pointed out and gave a good observation of the kind of arguments used here to stop this thread from being answered. I mean 9590 definitely is heads N horns with the 4770k and beats by a slight margin in some benchmarks while 4770k is ahead by the same small margin. But again we bring price and go back to 8350 then we come to perf and back to 9590. We'll keep going around this circle for eternity until we accept that the fact is AMD still is a very good option. When an OCN user says that my FX-8xxx won't bottleneck a 290X he doesn't mean to use it at stock, this is not stock clocks.net like a mod earlier said, when we see that AMD is getting viable we go to stock performance and then when we bring 9590 then we're comparing it with an over clocked 4770k, this how we're going round n round. Posters must be firm on their stand or else this thread will still be alive forever and probably ten years ahead my son will be posting in my place LOL
    
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post #1086 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by imran27 View Post

This thread has kept me busy for last couple of weeks and yet it's the same as before. Durquavian gave pointed out and gave a good observation of the kind of arguments used here to stop this thread from being answered. I mean 9590 definitely is heads N horns with the 4770k and beats by a slight margin in some benchmarks while 4770k is ahead by the same small margin. But again we bring price and go back to 8350 then we come to perf and back to 9590. We'll keep going around this circle for eternity until we accept that the fact is AMD still is a very good option. When an OCN user says that my FX-8xxx won't bottleneck a 290X he doesn't mean to use it at stock, this is not stock clocks.net like a mod earlier said, when we see that AMD is getting viable we go to stock performance and then when we bring 9590 then we're comparing it with an over clocked 4770k, this how we're going round n round. Posters must be firm on their stand or else this thread will still be alive forever and probably ten years ahead my son will be posting in my place LOL
And to 911GT2 here is a guy who is still using a Bulldozer FX-8150 and from what I can tell he is still happily using it 3+ years on? Just sayin.
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post #1087 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastair View Post

And to 911GT2 here is a guy who is still using a Bulldozer FX-8150 and from what I can tell he is still happily using it 3+ years on? Just sayin.
Yeah really and that's a fact. I heavily do compression/encryption/trans-coding etc and my 8150 at 4.2 is really flying and my over clocked ram also helps a lot in these tasks. Let me tell you this also, I played Crysis 3, spec ops: the line, metro last light, gta4, etc. All on either medium or high settings(my GPU can't do ultra at 1280x1024 that good). GTA4 specifically which is supposed to be amongst worst PC ports gave me 43 fps and that's the worst result I got only once and normally it'd be in 53-58 fps range. Till now I've been extremely happy with my BD, I'm sure it can still go too far.
    
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post #1088 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Tbh I am not sure what "too much voltage" exactly is, besides affecting total consumption. Haswell most definitely can hit the numbers you say but at what cost? There are degradation reports left and right (even this forum has a relevant thread), I don't recall Sandy causing such a commotion.

Sandy actually degrades much easier than haswell. For example for most sandy chips 1.7v is instant death. With haswell it's a bit more complicated. There are a number of voltages that can be cranked too high and there's no way of knowing what actually killed a particular chip in most cases. Haswell only degrades faster if you assume that we should put the same amounts of voltage through it as previous chips. This obviously isn't the case since haswell requires less voltage to hit the clocks that it does.

However, it's really nitpicking to bring up degrading in this case with any architecture. For example with haswell if you stay below say 1.375v vcore, below 2.25v vrin, below 1.2v ring you wont have any problems at all unless you get a dud chip from the beginning. And honestly you wont be using any more voltage than those under 24/7 cooling anyway so higher voltages are mostly a moot point.


some off-topic about sandy:

honestly SB is often remembered as the golden architecture for OCing but in reality aside from being able to hit 5.0ghz on air / water it's pretty terrible. SB does not scale with temperatures at all. SB does not scale with voltages above 1.7v at all, SB gets almost instantly killed by 1.7v, SB chips have a random max multi that they can't get over no matter what you do, etc. SB was a really terrible chip to OC aside from the highest OCing potential on high end CPUs since the i7 920.
 
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post #1089 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post

All decent hardware review sites use Intel processors for their game benchmarks and reviews of pretty much anything unless they are comparing Intel vs AMD in a specific situation. Even AMD themselves have told reviewers to use Intel processors to show their latest video cards in the best way possible. These two facts alone confirm the statement of this thread, AMD is no longer viable in the mid to high end.

AMD's flagship processor, the 8350 is under $200 because they are clinging to the low end to survive. Their $200+ FX processors are just pre-overclocked 8350s for suckers.

Watching a handful of AMD diehards twist numbers and situations is really saddening. "Benchmarks aren't trustworthy unless AMD matches or wins. Biased forum reviews are more valuable, again, only if their bias is with AMD. AMD "feels" smoother, there is no proof to this but its a thing, i promise."

Seriously, stop it.
How about you prove your point and refrain from using words like suckers. Doesn't make you seem impartial but rather biased. So far in this thread I have seen a lot PROVE that AMD is indeed viable for Mid-High-end without once bashing Intel or an Intel user in doing so. Most, not all, on the counter point have yet to prove otherwise and resorted to bashing and flaming doing so. This is including you.

If you own an 8350 by all means give us valid reason why it isn't and how you reasonably came to this conclusion. But so far there have been numerous FX owners that have given proof of the fact that AMD is indeed viable.
post #1090 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

You know full well that this is completely garbage...

Haswell has about 20-25% OCing headroom. And that's for 24/7 usage, not suicide runs with too much voltage. In order to reach the same OC levels a 9590 (which you keep wanting the review sites to use in benches to mislead people into thinking that the AMD chips actually stand a chance) would have to reach 5.7-5.9GHz. For 24/7 usage. Not possible.

Since most OCNers are gamers, and since the 8350 and the haswell's have about the same amount of OCing potential I'll post this here one more time:



For gaming with current high end GPUs a 4670K is on average 20% faster than a Vishera CPU. And a 4770K is on average 25% faster than a Vishera CPU. Whether that difference is worth it to you is your own decision. But to pretend that the difference is not there is just being in denial and worse, is misleading towards people who have not looked into this as much as we have.



tl;dr 8350 and haswells have about the same OCing headroom. 4670K 20% faster in gaming, 4770K 25% faster in gaming.
You need to read this: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/170023-amd-vs-intel-the-ultimate-gaming-showdown-5ghz-fx-9590-vs-i7-4960x

Seriously I am not getting this blatant biased one sided need to post blatant skewed numbers. At some point you guys are gonna have to let go of this need to prop Intel up, they don't need your help. AMD being VIABLE does not mean that AMD is better than Intel. So it does not require the constant bashing or using such inflated numbers. For every bench you post there is another showing different results going the other way. Alatar you know better than this, or maybe not. Not sure you even game. Only ever seen bench results from you.
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