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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 111  

post #1101 of 1593
Just wondering why this thread ended up being a AMD VS Intel thread. Being viable of a certain category isn't it base on usage of the CPU rather than benchmark ?

I do understand that benchmarks tell us a great deal of information regarding how a CPU perform.

But if we talk about mid to high end usage isn't AMD still viable. Let's use gaming as a example, a 8350 and a 290x is also capable of playing latest game using the highest setting. Isn't that high end in terms of usage ?

For a 15 Second task, how much does IPC, Cycle per sec and newest instruction set going to translate into real world performance. 2 second difference ? I would agreed if its a 10 second difference then Amd would really be not viable. But guess what Amd is trying to achieve that now.

I do agreed that 4770 is a good process overall but that's Only the best process you can buy with money. 4770 also looks good on benchmark. But do you run it at 100% all the time ?

Both company are making different toy for us to play with. Amd being value for performance and Intel being Performance for the price you pay.

Sorry for my bad english
Edited by cantoboi - 3/31/14 at 6:34am
post #1102 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

That's the thing with sandy, once you start upping the voltage it dies really easily. 1.7v is not death for haswell even though 1.7v is often death for SB even on LN2. I've put 1.9v through my haswell on LN2 and it's perfectly fine and doesn't show any signs of degrading.

And as for the 1.3v stuff, again as I said, with haswell there are a bunch of voltages that can degrade the chip. 1.3v vcore will not do it (unless you have a defective chip) so in those cases it's much more likely that it was some other voltage that the person OCing the chip raised too high. Or that the CPU was ran at 100C+ at high voltages for a long time. Anyway ring voltage for example needs to be kept quite low just like IMC voltages on previous platforms. And even then the amount of chips that will die or degrade is extremely small. Just like with any other CPU release.

Haswell OCing is not bad and the potential isn't small. It's just that people got used to the ridiculously simple SB/IB OCing and when haswell didn't OC by simply upping vcore and multi you heard reports of it OCing very badly. Haswell will become temp limited before it is voltage limited unless you're using phase like I am. It does not degrade on (core) voltages that water coolers can handle during stress tests.
It's a spreadsheet of 23 most recently released games benched on high end GPUs using the CPUs we are discussing in this thread. And it comes from a reputable site.

There's nothing garbage about it. In fact, when it comes to this discussion topic that might be the most relevant spreadsheet you can have.

And it favors AMD too since it doesn't actually list old titles, just new ones.
I had an issue with it because I do not like purposefully downclocking GPUs or CPUs for real world reviewing purposes.

No crippling of the hardware has happened in the tests posted in this thread.
Your example has a couple of games and they're pretty much all GPU bottlenecked. And on top of this it's comparing a part with little to no OCing headroom to a part with plenty of OCing headroom.

And most importantly of all; my spreadsheet has a ton of data in it. 23 most recent games, not only the gaming evolved and TWIMTBP games, but all sorts of games from MMOs, to fps games.
No it's not false. However

-It's comparing 4.7-5.0 Vishera to Ivy bridge (I wouldn't compare OC haswell against Bulldozer, why are you comparing Vishera to last gen intel architectures)
-the CPUs used aren't the ones we're discussing
-The sample size is extremely small
-games that are used are all GPU bottlenecked
-CPUs used in the tests all have different amounts of OCing headroom

All in all the review you keep posting is about as relevant to the situation as this one: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/11/03/amd_fx8150_multigpu_gameplay_performance_review/2#.Uzlg8vl_tqA

Meaning that it isn't relevant because nothing there is the same as the stuff we're discussing here. It's not false no, however it's not really relevant either for obvious reasons.

Mainstream haswell vs. Vishera with similar OCing headroom is what we need to see here. That's a fair and representative comparison. What your review is comparing is pre-built 9590 vs. IB-E how that's relevant to discussions about mid-high range intel hardware on an overclocking forum I do not know.
No this you steering the debate again. Seriously is there a class out there where you guys learn this. Unfortunately you are all bad at it. The point of the thread is VIABLE, Intel OC or SB/haswell changes nothing on the performance of AMD to meet the criteria. Point being you can't use some benches and exclude others no matter the reason, when you base your sole claims on benches.
post #1103 of 1593
above is the mentioned device
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recursion View Post

Cheap mobo needs also many many other things like sata,fan controller,vrm but with the stock cooler and the intel 4k isn't it very loud? I think most people has already a decent aftermarket cooler, isn't? Not fair comparison?
The stock fan is not loud at all as long as you are at stock settings which is all a h81 chipset can allow. And no fan controller is used. It has 3 fan headers.

That mobo does lack a few features like sata 3 and only has two usb 3.0.

Its a fully functional gaming pc. How can I not compare it? Even if an comparable amd setup does not need a cooler it still costs the same as this and needs to be overclocked to compete with it.
Edited by Wirerat - 3/31/14 at 6:03am
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post #1104 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

No this you steering the debate again. Seriously is there a class out there where you guys learn this. Unfortunately you are all bad at it. The point of the thread is VIABLE, Intel OC or SB/haswell changes nothing on the performance of AMD to meet the criteria. Point being you can't use some benches and exclude others no matter the reason, when you base your sole claims on benches.

I'm pretty sure that using the correct CPU and running at OC / no OC and sample sizes do change things quite a lot...

Whether the AMD CPUs are viable or not is determined by their ability to compete against mid-high end products. These mid-high end products are 4770K mainly and the 4670K as mid-range.

Whether a 9590 can come close to a 4960X in 7 GPU bound benches tells us literally nothing about how Vishera CPUs stack up against current mid-high end CPUs as enthusiast offerings....
 
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post #1105 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

above is the mentioned device
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recursion View Post

Cheap mobo needs also many many other things like sata,fan controller,vrm but with the stock cooler and the intel 4k isn't it very loud? I think most people has already a decent aftermarket cooler, isn't? Not fair comparison?
The stock fan is not loud at all as long as you are at stock settings which is all a h81 chipset can allow. And no fan controller is used. It has 3 fan headers.

That mobo does lack a few features like sata 3 and only has two usb 3.0.

Its a fully functional gaming pc. How can I not compare it? Even if an comparable amd setup does not need a cooler it still costs the same as this and needs to be overclocked to compete with it.

But Sata 2+Ssd is bootleneck,isn't it?
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post #1106 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recursion View Post

But Sata 2+Ssd is bootleneck,isn't it?
not in gaming. That only would affect loading times. Even then not by much.

In amd's defense. I done a build a month ago for another guy and the cost was about the same. Only he has a fx6300 @4.5ghz/970 mobo/hyper 212 paired with a gtx 770.

The amd rig runs most games faster than the 4670k+7870. But in the case of MMO type games that intel rig with the lower gpu+better cpu will do better.

I build based on what games a customer plays if budget is a big issue. The amd setup mentioned was for someone who plays BF4 and fps.
Edited by Wirerat - 3/31/14 at 6:35am
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post #1107 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

I'm pretty sure that using the correct CPU and running at OC / no OC and sample sizes do change things quite a lot...

Whether the AMD CPUs are viable or not is determined by their ability to compete against mid-high end products. These mid-high end products are 4770K mainly and the 4670K as mid-range.

Whether a 9590 can come close to a 4960X in 7 GPU bound benches tells us literally nothing about how Vishera CPUs stack up against current mid-high end CPUs as enthusiast offerings....

I would love to see a 9590 Vs 4930K comparison using 780 Ti's in SLI and TRI SLI. That would shut up a lot of people very quickly
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post #1108 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

I would love to see a 9590 Vs 4930K comparison using 780 Ti's in SLI and TRI SLI. That would shut up a lot of people very quickly

Yeah like everyone can actually buy 3 780 Tis. You should be looking at Intel's higher end if you're spending that stupid amount of money.
post #1109 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo01 View Post

Yeah like everyone can actually buy 3 780 Tis. You should be looking at Intel's higher end if you're spending that stupid amount of money.
no need to waste your time. This how they derail or steer a thread. The original point so ignorantly made was AMD couldn't supply a high end SINGLE gpu without bottlenecking. The reference they above are making are to an article that proves without a doubt it can supply. They are now trying to make it about something else since the original point is now proven false.
post #1110 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

I would love to see a 9590 Vs 4930K comparison using 780 Ti's in SLI and TRI SLI. That would shut up a lot of people very quickly

That would't really count as "mid-high" end, now would it? That would be enthusiast level.
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