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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 113  

post #1121 of 1593
When AMD use intel cpus to demonstrate the performance of their gpus, we all know something is wrong smile.gif. In the mid range segments theres no reason to buy a fx8320/8350 over a i5 4670k, because it performs better in majority of games. Im glad I "invested" in a i5 3570k, and running it at 4.8ghz it beat everything AMD has up to this point in games even if those AMD cpus are clocked to similar speed. And the funny part is when I bought my system, AMD cpu + mobo would actually cost as much or even more smile.gif. With AMD you have to upgrade cpu + mobo more frequent than intel. I feel pitty for those buying amd system 3 years back and I feel glad for those buying a i5 2500k and i7 2600k system 3 years ago. Why? Well because those buying amd 3 years back cant even upgrade to any better cpu, not to mention they have to buy a cpu to beginn with and that is added costs. I feel proud of those buying a high end x58 motherboard 4-5 years back because they have a whole world of opportunity in terms of future proof upgrading on the cpu side smile.gif. You see its a win-win situation. Some might complain quads are getting outdated, well if you have a sandy or ivy system, feel free to get a used i7 2600k or a i7 3770k, they have HT which will help in multicore games and apps. If you have a x58 system, feel free to get a used 980x and x56xx 6-core cpu.
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post #1122 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo01 View Post

Point is you still spent twice as much smile.gif I for one am a cheap stake so the more cash I save the better tongue.gif regardless of how long it'll last.

Spending not quite twice as much, half as often, and needing to do less work, does not translate into higher cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post

The "Bought FX-8150 in 2011" argument wouldn't really work either,as most of us here didn't buy into the bulldozer hype.

You speak as if Bulldozer had no virtues and Vishera was a major upgrade. Vishera has 5-10% more IPC and ~5% more clock headroom.

If Bulldozer wasn't worth buying after it's first price cut, Vishera isn't worth buying now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post

There is no such as "future-proofing" either. Just because the 2600K does well enough for you,doesn't mean something like a 4670K wouldn't be an upgrade.

A 4670k is not an upgrade over a 2600k. It's faster in a few areas, but it does not over clock better, and in most multi-threaded tasks, the 2600k is still ahead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

Will an FX 8350 even bottleneck a 780 TI? That just doesn't sound right when I say it out loud to myself here behind my keyboard... If it doesn't bottleneck the best consumer GPU out there, then what is the fuss all about in the first place?

The answer to "will this bottleneck that" is always "it depends", outside of the clear cut extremes. I have encountered situations where my 1.6GHz single core Celeron is not a bottleneck for 3x7950s, and situations where my 4.5GHz 4930k bottlenecks a single 6970.

And again, just because you have a GPU limited scenario where most any CPU will do, it does not make that CPU high-end, it makes it sufficient for that task.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

The original topic is about AMD not being good for mid-high end.

High-end is relative, you can't begin to define it without comparing it to what else is out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

The 9590 would out perform the 4770k .

If I were to give systems built around each chip my honest best effort (highest bang for the buck everything, once hard minimums were surpassed, and equal care done with OCing/tweaking), the 9590 setup would cost 150 dollars more, and would lose to the 4770k setup most of the time.

The FX-9590 is a novelty item. It's like an Intel X part of the current generation. Almost double the cost for next to no tangible benefit. I wouldn't touch one at typical prices for the same reason I bought an i7 970 over a 980X, a 3930k over a 3960X, or my 4930k over a 4960X.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyM4n View Post

Well then, get an 8320! wink.gif

A good chip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

To be honest, the 9xxx have about the same headroom as the haswells.

This is blatantly and obviously incorrect, most especially if you are referring to the 9590.

A typical 4770k is capable of about a 25% OC on a modest air cooler and a cheap board, without any potentially dangerous modifications like delidding. Use a better board and cooling, and you can extend this a bit further.

An FX-9370 has around 15% OC headroom, while the 9590 generally has 10% or less, and even these OC need decent water loops and some of the most robust AM3+ boards for 24/7 stability.

Roughly double is not "about the same".
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

I have a very high VID ( 1.538) 9370 that has validated on an h-100 at 5740 mhz in some chilly ambients. There are much better examples out there than mine. For daily use at normal ambients on water it will pull 5.3 or better, 600 mhz over turbo or 900 over base.
70% of 4770k's top out at a 600 mhz overclock over turbo speeds.

Even in these dubious scenarios, the 4770k has proportionally more headroom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

I am not sure I catch your drift here, If 1.7 is death for sandy, wouldn't the same vcore kill a haswell chip straight away, or even less, regardless of what's the target freq?

Typical voltage tolerances can vary quite unpredictably from architecture to architecture, especially when both the manufacturing processes and power delivery have been dramatically changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

The point of the thread is VIABLE

My FX parts are more than viable for what I use them for, but they are not viable replacements for my mid-range or high-end Intel parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfTots View Post

That would be enthusiast level.

I really don't like the use of "enthusiast" as a synonym for high-end.

I've been a PC enthusiast and OCer for twenty years, the overwhelming bulk of that time spent on eking the most performance I could get out of low-end parts.
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post #1123 of 1593
Im enthusiast and I only use mid range stuff. AMD can be used by enthusiasts as well, how ever it wouldnt be a wise choice to buy anything from AMD now days, if you are making a gaming oriented mid range build, as we have proven here many times. Face it, some of you that bought AMD did make a less clever choice, we all make bad choices some times and hopefully we learn.
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post #1124 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by PachAz View Post

Im enthusiast and I only use mid range stuff. AMD can be used by enthusiasts as well, how ever it wouldnt be a wise choice to buy anything from AMD now days, if you are making a gaming oriented mid range build, as we have proven here many times. Face it, some of you that bought AMD did make a less clever choice, we all make bad choices some times and hopefully we learn.

My FX 8 core tied with a 290x has hardly been a poor choice considering my #1 game is BF4 64 player... thumb.gif
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post #1125 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by PachAz View Post

Im enthusiast and I only use mid range stuff. AMD can be used by enthusiasts as well, how ever it wouldnt be a wise choice to buy anything from AMD now days, if you are making a gaming oriented mid range build, as we have proven here many times. Face it, some of you that bought AMD did make a less clever choice, we all make bad choices some times and hopefully we learn.

Well I seem to run every game out there just fine. And my Steam, Origin and Uplay game inventory is pretty big.

I've got back to my Thuban, and funnily enough it was the best choice I have ever made thumb.gif and yes I came from an I7 Ivy.
post #1126 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo01 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PachAz View Post

Im enthusiast and I only use mid range stuff. AMD can be used by enthusiasts as well, how ever it wouldnt be a wise choice to buy anything from AMD now days, if you are making a gaming oriented mid range build, as we have proven here many times. Face it, some of you that bought AMD did make a less clever choice, we all make bad choices some times and hopefully we learn.

Well I seem to run every game out there just fine. And my Steam, Origin and Uplay game inventory is pretty big.

I've got back to my Thuban, and funnily enough it was the best choice I have ever made thumb.gifand yes I came from an I7 Ivy.

Mike01, did you forget the days when you were feeling buyer's remorse towards AMD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo01 View Post

So as most AMD fans, I went out and bought everything ready for Bulldozer intending to overclock it. It failed miserably.

I have the FX-6100.
My question really is, is it worth changing it for pure performance. I am looking to overclocking the CPU to get the best performance out of single threaded and also multi-threaded (gaming). So in other words speedy for everyday use and good for gaming to not bottleneck my HD 6850.

I don't know whether its my chip that can't overclock high. My board was RMAed last month, so this is a new board and cannot overclock the chip higher, so I assume its just an unlucky chip.

I don't really want to push voltages too much so my chip downgrades either.

So basically:
Phenom II x4
Phenom II x6
FX-4100
FX-6100 (swap mine for another one)
FX-8120

Which do you guys think I should get. I will be overclocking it to the maximum while staying in the safe limits of voltages.

Also thinking about price, I have a board capable of overclocking, but want to know if choosing one CPU over the other is a waste of money.

Gaming is the only multi-threaded I use.

Edited by 996gt2 - 3/31/14 at 12:07pm
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post #1127 of 1593
Well, I admit the fx 8320 and 8250 performs good in games, but even that little extra fps you get in majority of games with the i5 4670k makes it worth, the price differance is like what 50 dollars? Í also dont underastand why you went from a i7 ivy to a amd, because the i7 3770k once clocked even beast or equal the performance on the i7 39xx and i7 49xx with one gpu in all games. The i7 3770k is probably the best i7 out there, faster than i7 2600k clock per clock and OC almost as good with good cooling = equal or even better performance than a OC i7 4770k. So no, I dont get your downgrade at all dude.....
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post #1128 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post

Mike01, did you forget the days when you were feeling buyer's remorse towards AMD?

Oh yes definitely, Bulldozer biggrin.gif No honestly a FX-6100 was terrible choice for myself.

The 6300 and 8320 fairs a lot better though. Piledriver is a lot better thank God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PachAz View Post

Well, I admit the fx 8320 and 8250 performs good in games, but even that little extra fps you get in majority of games with the i5 4670k makes it worth, the price differance is like what 50 dollars? Í also dont underastand why you went from a i7 ivy to a amd, because the i7 3770k once clocked even beast or equal the performance on the i7 39xx and i7 49xx with one gpu in all games. The i7 3770k is probably the best i7 out there, faster than i7 2600k clock per clock and OC almost as good with good cooling = equal or even better performance than a OC i7 4770k. So no, I dont get your downgrade at all dude.....

Well because I didn't use it to it's full potential. It wasn't *that* much of an upgrade from my Thuban @ 4.0Ghz.

Bare in mind that I7 cost 3x as much as my Thuban when I bought it. I didn't feel the justification of it; so I sold it.

The FPS difference was minimal and definitely not worth the extra cost in my experience.

EDIT:
I went from a Thuban 1045T @ 4.0Ghz -> I7 3770 -> Athlon 760K -> Now back to Thuban. It does say something.
Edited by mikeo01 - 3/31/14 at 12:15pm
post #1129 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

My FX 8 core tied with a 290x has hardly been a poor choice considering my #1 game is BF4 64 player... thumb.gif
Well, a 5ghz 8 core modern cpu should perform good, otherwise something is severe wrong. But I do think even a i5 at 4.5ghz paired with a 290x perform as good in bf4 64 players. Also if one can afford or making a build with a 290x, he can afford getting the superior i7 4770k or a hard clocked i5 4670k that is still epic for the price and the "low" amount of cores. I dont know what fps I get with my system in bf4 multiplayer, but I will test it soon and report. And I have one epic cpu, nobody can deny that for what the price I paid for my cpu, mobo and ram.
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post #1130 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

Dual midrange cards can expose this.

I moved from fx after adding a 2nd 660ti because of it.

I really think my rig is midrange. 4670k + 660ti sli and the fx6300 @ 5ghz was not getting it done in bf4. The dips were bad.

I would have preferred to stay amd and save $150(cost after selling fx/mobo).

My friends fx6300 at gtx 770 does not have the dips sli added to my setup. With one gpu amd can do "good enough". Multi was not acceptable in some games in my experience.
I have to say it's totally not the fx 6300 if at all,SLI doesn't work all that well in BF4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Terrible? Terrible you say?

[H] - Gold Award
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/01/29/asrock_z87_killer_fatal1ty_motherboard_review/7#.Uzla_PldUfQ
KitGuru - Worth Buying
http://www.kitguru.net/components/motherboard/luke-hill/asrock-fatal1ty-z87-killer-motherboard-review/20/
Guru - Great Value
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/asrock_z87_fatality_killer_review,20.html

ASRock has made leaps and bounds. Name another Z87 board that can run 3 way 780 Ti's for 115 dollars
A few review sites that got working samples doesn't mean it's a perfect board for running "3 way 780Ti's". Read some actual reviews form Newegg,I don't think you'd want to purchase a board that has a 50/50 chance of not even booting. Besides, if you can afford 3 780Ti's,you wouldn't be buying a $115 motherboard in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

You speak as if Bulldozer had no virtues and Vishera was a major upgrade. Vishera has 5-10% more IPC and ~5% more clock headroom.
If Bulldozer wasn't worth buying after it's first price cut, Vishera isn't worth buying now.
A 4670k is not an upgrade over a 2600k. It's faster in a few areas, but it does not over clock better, and in most multi-threaded tasks, the 2600k is still ahead.
The answer to "will this bottleneck that" is always "it depends", outside of the clear cut extremes. I have encountered situations where my 1.6GHz single core Celeron is not a bottleneck for 3x7950s, and situations where my 4.5GHz 4930k bottlenecks a single 6970.
I've been a PC enthusiast and OCer for twenty years, the overwhelming bulk of that time spent on eking the most performance I could get out of low-end parts.
The 4670K,and a Vishera based 83xx is still and upgrade even though you're saying both are "only better in a few areas". If it's faster in some thing's I'd call it an upgrade,lol. A $150 CPU isn't worth buying that comes within a few FPS of a CPU that costs $100+ more? That really makes me question if you even have a FX 83xx/Vishera chip. Vishera is worth the upgrade if you're still on Phenom II or want a cheap price/performance setup. You're acting as if an FX cpu is a Sempron/Celeron only worth handling browsing and a few apps.
The FX Visheras actually have a 10% IPC increase,some areas 15%,and way more OC headroom than just 5% as Bulldozer was a nuclear reactor if you moved it above stock.
Edited by Heavy MG - 3/31/14 at 12:23pm
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