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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 117  

post #1161 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post



So even though they Trail Intel in performance across a number of actual architectural performance facts, they still manage to compete. For those that wish to build an AMD rig, it can be done as a high-end rig.

I really enjoyed this thread guys! Has kept be "busy" at work for a few days.

Here is my take as an outsider. My last computer was an athlon x2 6400.

Durq put it really well, for those that wish to build an AMD rig, it can be done. Anyone not an AMD fan/fanatic will simply go Intel due to the fact that AMD has to struggle to be justified as relevant at mid-range.

No one has to justify an Intel, simply realize the difference in price is probably the same as not going out to eat that one time, or not taking that one unnecessary drive.

So in the end, in the conquest for a mid-range rig I ended with a 3770k and a 7870 gpu....and then I found watercooling and the rest is irrelevant.tongue.gif
post #1162 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

If you keep to just stock then the 8350/8320 at best would be mid end. They have decent performance there but short of true speed and power like what you might find with high end and extreme Intel series. But this is the part where you have to consider what you can get out of them. Can you make them into high end CPUs or Extreme?

Now why is it that these CPUs aren't high end? What deems them mid range? You say "decent performance" but last time I checked, they outdo a lot of computers out there.
There still hasn't been a line drawn on CPU ratings. Where is the limit for a mid range. What do you have to cross to be High end?
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post #1163 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

How about you prove your point and refrain from using words like suckers.

I'm sorry if that offends you but that is exactly what AMD is taking you for. I was wrong before, AMD's flagship is the $160 8320, not the 8350.

8320 - a good buy if it fits your very specific low end needs.

8350 - same amount of cores and cache, they simply overclocked it out of the box and ask for more money. You can do this yourself.

9370 - same amount of cores and cache, they simply overclocked it a little more out of the box and ask for more money. You can do this yourself.

9590 - same amount of cores and cache, they simply overclocked it to the limits out of the box and ask for even more money. You can do this yourself.

Have you seen the competition? When Intel charges more for a processor you get more cores, hyperthreading, more cache. You're actually paying for something that you can't just hop in the bios and change yourself.

So yeah, that $160 flagship is low end, sorry.

You realize that 4770k, 4670k, lower 4000 series quads are all the same chips, Intel just disables parts of it.

What AMD is doing is actually a nice thing. If AMD were Intel, the lineup would look something like this:

FX 8320: no VT-D or AVX/FMA3 part of L2 and L3 disabled
FX 8350 no VT-D, includes FMA3 but not AVX, less L2 and L3 disabled
FX 9370: no VT-D, includes FMA3 and AVX, even less L2 and L3 disabled.
FX 9590: VT-D, IOMMU, FMA3, AVX, full L2 and L3 enabled.

You don't seem to remember the days when Intel and AMD's CPU lineup consisted mostly of the same chips at different clock speeds, and part of being an enthusiast/overclocker was having the ability to buy cheap chips and turn them into more expensive ones.

Intel has completely changed the game and turned overclocking into this "elite club" where you have to pay an additional tax to enter, lose parts of the chip, etc.

I had a nice life of buying low end Intel and AMD chips, saving a ton of money, then overclocking them and having something nicer.

Your attitude irks me to no end, because you're basically completely against the kind of product line-ups where you can buy a cheap chip, overclock it, and have something nicer.

The only purpose of those more expensive AMD chips are to provide for those who can't or won't overclock. It is just like the old line-up of Core 2 Duo, Pentium 4, Athlon XP/64/etc, Opteron, etc.

The biggest thing that irks me the most is that before Intel completely flipped the game, they'd make more money off of people who weren't able to overclock by charging them more for what is basically a BIOS setting change that was locked after being sold. Now, Intel makes more money by making overclocking ridiculously easy and charging more for the ability to do it.

I don't know if you realize it, but you're basically arguing that Intel doing something like releasing an unlocked i5 3330k model for $190 would be completely stupid and horrible for customers.

The last Intel system I owned was an i7 920, and it was the same old situation where you could either save a ton of money by buying the slow model and overclocking, or if it you were stupid and couldn't overclock, you'd spend more on a "factory overclocked" system. Once Intel changed to IB, and decided to tell us all that we're basically moochers who get stuff for free by overclocking, and then locked overclocking to the most expensive parts in the line-up, I walked away from Intel and have never regretted it.

And in that time, I've been "lucky" enough to see the enthusiast community devolve into this awful benchmark pissing match of people who think they are SOOOO GOOD with computers because they can change the multiplier on their fisher price E-Z Clock CPU.

I'm going to rant and probably get in trouble for this, but screw it. I'm so sick and tired of you elitist Intel people. You constantly wag benchmarks around like a bunch of fools, and half the time they're benchmarks for programs for software that you don't even know what that software actually does. It's like you come to these place and feel like you have some sort of urge to be some sort of GOOD GOY INTEL MARKETING AGENT to show up on random forums and make sure that you try and advertise for Intel under the guise of "WOW I CHANGED THE MULTIPLIER AND NOW I WIN BENCHMARKS IM THE BEST COMPUTER ENTHUSIAST TO EVER EXIST!!!!!!!!!!! LOOK AT THESE BENCHMARKS!!!"

Years ago, you'd see people thrilled with the idea of buying cheap celerons, semprons, all the way up to high end just changing clocks and pushing chips far. Thanks to you awful Intel barbarians who can't appreciate a well performing chip, being a computer enthusiast has turned into this knuckle dragging circle jerk of the same 15 benchmarks.

And it's because Intel re-wrote overclocking. It turned it from a valuable skill which benefited those with knowledge into this awful, fanboy creating, ridiculously easy and simple procedure which makes people want to justify their purchases and create the most stable form of viral marketing to ever cross the internet. Yes, I view you "LOL EVO 212 COOLER I HIT 4.5GHZ IM THE BEST INTEL 4LYFE XDDD" enthusiasts even lower than the most rabid, inane Apple fanboy.

So just drop it already. I'd take a chip that was half as fast as FX 8320 but OCed a lot more and was a ton of fun to play with. You might even wonder why I don't have FX 4000 series to OC and play with if I feel that way? Well I disable cores and modules on my 8350 all the time, and it's like playing with a different chip.

Enjoy bashing on a company that still lets you get more out of cheaper hardware and hoping that they can some day give us a lineup that more reflects theirs, like perhaps AM4 platform with bus clock locked and only the highest end chip has an unlocked multiplier. OH GOD I HOPE THAT HAPPENS!!!! /s
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post #1164 of 1593
^^^^^ +1000
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post #1165 of 1593
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post #1166 of 1593
Yes intel killed the enthusiast scene by tying pci-e frequency to the bclk frequency.

We'll just completely forget to mention that AMD has killed it's enthusiast platform, and even on the APU side is only going to produce sub 65W parts after this generation.

It's almost as if intel is content with letting AMD grab low budget enthusiasts and AMD is content with letting intel grab the higher budget ones. Oh wait that's exactly how it is.
 
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post #1167 of 1593
My problem with intel/amd fans is actually just with the intel people. You dont see a amd fanboy going into the intel forum when someone is asking for help on which cpu to buy knocking them for choosing intel and not amd. But you see it all the time with intel fanboys going into amd forums and bashing amd...and yet mods do nothing...but if a amd fanboy goes into a intel forum they get their posts deleted and warned..that makes perfect sense...
post #1168 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Yes intel killed the enthusiast scene by tying pci-e frequency to the bclk frequency.
We'll just completely forget to mention that AMD has killed it's enthusiast platform, and even on the APU side is only going to produce sub 65W parts after this generation.
It's almost as if intel is content with letting AMD grab low budget enthusiasts and AMD is content with letting intel grab the higher budget ones. Oh wait that's exactly how it is.
It's the ridiculously easy overclocking like "look I changed my multi and got teh gigahertz look at deez benchmarks" ,the Intel skewed benchmark software,paid reviewers,Intel trying to kill AMD for years (a person could go on and on how AMD's just hanging on a thread here)that killed AMD's enthusiast platform. I'd like to know how you're seeing into the future that the 65W APU's won't be overclockable.
Intel is the reason you people are paying a premium for a cpu just to be unlocked,and no one seems to have a problem with it. I really have to side with sdlvx here. The method to OC those CPU's is too easy and you don't even have to try. Meanwhile you can purchase a $75 FM2 Athlon and play with it for quite a while. Really nice attitude you have there by the way,It's so sad it's kinda funny,being a mod you should be setting an example for everyone in this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

You're saying I should trust newegg reviews over trusted sites? lachen.gif
So I should trust some review sites paid to talk about a motherboard,and not real people sharing their experience with the product? You also nitpicked over the rest of my comment just to say that? Lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papas View Post

My problem with intel/amd fans is actually just with the intel people. You dont see a amd fanboy going into the intel forum when someone is asking for help on which cpu to buy knocking them for choosing intel and not amd. But you see it all the time with intel fanboys going into amd forums and bashing amd...and yet mods do nothing...but if a amd fanboy goes into a intel forum they get their posts deleted and warned..that makes perfect sense...
It's kind of like the "PC master race" crap,with people feeling the need to spout ignorant hate all over the console users because they spent more to play games and just want to justify their purchase, and never heard of the word preference. Or another analogy, if you're a "tuner/import" guy showing up at the track on "muscle car" day. If you try to prove your point but have the "wrong" team in your signature,you'll just get laughed at.
Edited by Heavy MG - 4/1/14 at 12:17am
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post #1169 of 1593
So again, why dont we have another bench off?
    
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post #1170 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post

It's the ridiculously easy overclocking like "look I changed my multi and got teh gigahertz look at deez benchmarks" ,the Intel skewed benchmark software,paid reviewers,Intel trying to kill AMD for years (a person could go on and on how AMD's just hanging on a thread here)that killed AMD's enthusiast platform.

-Only SB and IB were vcore + multi OCing, this isn't the case anymore
-AMD mainstream OCing isn't any different than SB/IB really
-skewed benchmark software?
-What reviewers are paid by intel exactly?
-Last time intel did anything illegal to AMD was in the Pentium 4 days

What killed AMD's enthusiast platform is the failure of the bulldozer arch and AMD's inability transition away from it or refine it enough. After 22nm SOI wasn't a possibility anymore the platform made no sense anymore because the architecture just wasn't up for it anymore.
Quote:
I'd like to know how you're seeing into the future that the 65W APU's won't be overclockable.

I never said they wont be overclockable. I said that they're going to be 65W or sub 65W.

Carrizo will bring integrated SB (irrelevant for desktop), lower power consumption with no higher power variants available (bad for desktop / enthusiast), DDR4 controllers (not available on desktop, or if this changes it will break compatibility with mobos) and not much else.

Remind me again how AMD's future product lines are making AMD the one standing with enthusiasts.
Quote:
Intel is the reason you people are paying a premium for a cpu just to be unlocked,and no one seems to have a problem with it. I really have to side with sdlvx here. The method to OC those CPU's is too easy and you don't even have to try. Meanwhile you can purchase a $75 FM2 Athlon and play with it for quite a while.

I did buy a $80 athlon and OC'd it to 7.1GHz. Those chips are the most ridiculously simple things to OC I have ever used.

The haswell platform I'm using right now is much more intricate and complicated to OC than anything AMD has made. There are more tweaking options than on any AM3+ boards, you have more voltages to tweak, those voltages actually make a huge difference and so on. This isn't 2011 anymore, SB is old. SB isn't relevant anymore in discussions about "easy to OC".
Quote:
Really nice attitude you have there by the way,It's so sad it's kinda funny,being a mod you should be setting an example for everyone in this forum.

As a moderator it's my task to enforce the rules on the forums that I moderate and help members when it comes to any issues that I can solve.

Other than that I'm just an OCN member just like you. I have my opinions and I will express them as long as they're within the ToS. That's the example I want to set. I am not a spam killing machine who keeps his opinions hidden because some users might not agree with them. Me being a moderator has absolutely nothing to do with the opinions I present on hardware or the industry in general. And the same goes for all mods. We're mods because we can keep moderation and our normal member activities separate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReciever View Post

So again, why dont we have another bench off?

I would be down for that. I believe we haven't had a proper AMD vs. Intel bench off thread in a long while.
 
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