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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 123  

post #1221 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post

The 4670K,and a Vishera based 83xx is still and upgrade even though you're saying both are "only better in a few areas". If it's faster in some thing's I'd call it an upgrade,lol.

The 4670k is not always faster than a 2600k. There are just as many areas where the 2600k is a head, because HT often offers more performance than the raw generational improvements. Haswell typically has 10-15% better IPC than Sandy, but adding HT to a Sandy can easily average 25%+ gains in well threaded tasks. In general, a 4670k is not an upgrade over a 2600k.

As for Vishera, I said that it was not a "major upgrade". No doubt it's an upgrade, but the extent of the upgrade is greatly exaggerated by many. The performance gap between Zambezi and Sandy is pretty much the same as between Vishera and Haswell, even taking OCs into account. Thus my statement that if the FX-8150 wasn't worth while after it's first price cut, then an FX-8350 cannot be worth while now, because they have nearly the same price and performance relative to the competition that was available at the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

In the extreme:
The 9590 has a top overclock of 3305 mhz over turbo
4770k -3224
4670k-3300
9370 - 3805
Source HWBOT
smile.gif
In practice:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/06/01/intel_haswell_i74770k_ipc_overclocking_review/6#.UzjQ8VfTtbZ

Nothing here was unknown to me nor contradicts anything I've said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imran27 View Post

Why do guys here tend to ignore Mantle?

Because I don't play Battlefield 4 or Thief.

Mantle games and drivers need time to mature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane569 View Post

We still need to define the characteristics of a mid range CPU as well as every other category.

High-end, to me, could be roughly defined as the CPUs that come within ~10% of the overall performance of the fastest consumer part, with an average 24/7 OC, available at the time.

No point in defining high-end as a point low enough that you can see air cooled consumer parts with 50-100% more performance in many scenarios.
Edited by Blameless - 4/4/14 at 4:09pm
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post #1222 of 1593
He doesnt have to say more, all evidence shows that AMD are utter crap in mid and high end gaming systems. When a 3.5 years old i5/i7 beats the fx 8350 in majority of games, that says alot. If intel would be a girl, I would marry her smile.gif.
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post #1223 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by PachAz View Post

He doesnt have to say more, all evidence shows that AMD are utter crap in mid and high end gaming systems. When a 3.5 years old i5/i7 beats the fx 8350 in majority of games, that says alot. If intel would be a girl, I would marry her smile.gif.

And yet if you pit my 9590 with a 290x vs your i5 with a 290, the majority of people would not feel a difference in most games. How is this utter crap?
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post #1224 of 1593
Thread Starter 
Mantle has nothing to do with CPU's. It's purely a GPU improvement. And yes, it will take a few years before it will catch on. Look at DX10.....it took forever for games to move from DX9 to DX10, and many games are still based on DX9. DX11 also took quite a while to adopt, the first 2 years of DX11 saw maybe 1-2 games using DX11.

Physx, ati stream.....all came with lofty promises many years ago, and really never came to fruition. And by the time mantle becomes used, all the current gen of videocards will be considered low end compared to future products. The best a person can hope for with current mantle cards is 1-3 mantle titles until an upgrade is needed.
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post #1225 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDATI View Post

Mantle has nothing to do with CPU's. It's purely a GPU improvement. And yes, it will take a few years before it will catch on. Look at DX10.....it took forever for games to move from DX9 to DX10, and many games are still based on DX9. DX11 also took quite a while to adopt, the first 2 years of DX11 saw maybe 1-2 games using DX11.

Physx, ati stream.....all came with lofty promises many years ago, and really never came to fruition. And by the time mantle becomes used, all the current gen of videocards will be considered low end compared to future products. The best a person can hope for with current mantle cards is 1-3 mantle titles until an upgrade is needed.
WRONG. Really do you know anything or do you just guess?
post #1226 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

And yet if you pit my 9590 with a 290x vs your i5 with a 290, the majority of people would not feel a difference in most games. How is this utter crap? Stop trolling.
I think you should try looking at the X5660 thread here on OCN first to see all thats on the table. Im not sure about i5, but maybe he meant 875k?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

WRONG. Really do you know anything or do you just guess?
Do you really have to be so combative?
    
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post #1227 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReciever View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

WRONG. Really do you know anything or do you just guess?
Do you really have to be so combative?

Buyer's remorse is a tough pill to swallow sometimes wink.gif
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post #1228 of 1593
Really? Add fuel to the flame?
    
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post #1229 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReciever View Post

Do you really have to be so combative?

He's mostly referring to AMDATI's Mantel statement, and in this regard he's correct. A big feature of Mantle is a reduction in the CPU overhead of rendering due to better management of draw calls.

Now Mantle doesn't make a CPU any faster, but it can certainly reduce the demand on a CPU, which in turn can push the bottleneck back to the GPU, even without a particularly potent CPU backing it.
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post #1230 of 1593
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

And yet if you pit my 9590 with a 290x vs your i5 with a 290, the majority of people would not feel a difference in most games. How is this utter crap? Stop trolling.

depends on the game.

The problem with FX 8 core chips is most games only use 4 cores. This is why Intels stronger individual cores win, since those 4 cores can be more powerful than 8 of AMD's. So even when games use all 8 cores, AMD will still be very much handicapped to current Intel chips, let alone future ones.

Another issue with parallelism is waiting time between threads. Threads dependent on another have to wait on that thread to finish before it can move forward. The more threads you add, the more waiting time between threads. So there are diminishing returns, and it gets even worse the weaker each core is. Now here's the kicker......regardless of brand, the same program with the same amount of threads, will wait the same amount of times on any CPU under the same usage scenario. The only difference is the time of these waits and the speed things are being processed between these waits.

All threads are not created equal in any sense. Some threads may consume more resources than others. You can only break up soo many pieces into a thread, and not all those pieces will be as demanding as others. . Your CPU's will still show 100% usage when it's waiting on other threads, even if a specific core is doing nothing. That's because it happens in nanoseconds, but many times in a second, enough to be significant, just not enough to diminish returns completely.

Yeah....people may not feel a difference in most games now (even though they're most certaintly there). I also think 120Hz gamers would have something to say about that.

.....but in the future they definitely will. minimum FPS will drop drastically, and when the GPU starts getting older and only able to hit 60fps on an intel system, they'll be hitting 40fps on an AMD system with the same GPU. That's pretty significant. There's no point in buying a powerful GPU if your CPU is just going to cripple it in the long run. I don't spend $200-$400 on a GPU just to max it out at 60% usage. You'd be better off and save more money with a weaker GPU.....one say.....60% of its strength.

I remember a time when people were more prudent and actually discouraged pairings that would be CPU/GPU limited.
Edited by AMDATI - 4/4/14 at 5:14pm
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