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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 133  

post #1321 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

and yet they didn't say Haswell and you can only assume they weren't just speaking of the other posters equipment. You are basing your argument on ignorance and assumptions. And none of this adds to the debate at hand. Viable for mid high end has nothing to do with how fun or not it is to OC.

Accusing Alatar of ignorance is quite hilarious, considering he has a 7.9Ghz+ validations for both a 8320 and 8350.
Try to step back from the keyboard man - we understand your enthusiasm, but temper that for a bit and recognize that Alatar is speaking from a position of experience with both platforms.

If you have past experience with current Intel hardware (e.g. Haswell), I could/would take your words more seriously. But there is no justification when you don't even have relevant experience.

Overclocking is all about breadth and depth of experience.
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post #1322 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

and yet they didn't say Haswell and you can only assume they weren't just speaking of the other posters equipment. You are basing your argument on ignorance and assumptions. And none of this adds to the debate at hand. Viable for mid high end has nothing to do with how fun or not it is to OC.
This thread was derailed into a Intel pissing match since page 1. Apparently AMD isn't viable since it doesn't beat Intel. I can't believe this thread is still going,just goes to show how dominant the Intel bias is in this forum,that now even AMD threads turned Intel e-peen contests with justification posts looking as if they're ripped from Amazon reviews don't even get closed.
/ Unsubbed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mav451 View Post

Accusing Alatar of ignorance is quite hilarious, considering he has a 7.9Ghz+ validations for both a 8320 and 8350.
Try to step back from the keyboard man - we understand your enthusiasm, but temper that for a bit and recognize that Alatar is speaking from a position of experience with both platforms.

If you have past experience with current Intel hardware (e.g. Haswell), I could/would take your words more seriously. But there is no justification when you don't even have relevant experience.

Overclocking is all about breadth and depth of experience.
So borrowing a FX chip to OC it once makes it totally valid of him to make such comments?
It's amazing when Intel people get all upset and accuse of the AMD guys of putting "AMD on a pedestal" but Intel folks do it all the time,lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post

People are forgetting that in addition to being a more power-hungry processor, a FX chip is also slower compared to an Intel chip, meaning that it will take longer to complete a task.

So, higher power consumption * longer duration =

wh.png


It's like comparing a car which used 1 gallon of duel per hour doing 80 mph (Intel) vs. a car which used 2 gallons of fuel per hour doing 60 mph (AMD)
So now you Intel people are comparing squares of silicon to cars? Stahp. Please just stahp. "Take longer to complete a task"? Oh noes,a few more seconds in a benchmark.
That graph seems legit,lol. 5800K drawing more than a 8350. Also,totally relevant to your 2700K at 5Ghz. rolleyes.gif
I had a 5800K,funny enough it only ever drew 130W max,and that was when it was OC'ed to 4.2,2000NB,with a 1000Mhz onboard GPU clock.
BTW if you cared about power consumption,you'd be using a Haswell. And if you really cared about power consumption you'd be on a tablet.
Edited by Heavy MG - 4/5/14 at 10:02am
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post #1323 of 1593
Really, if you play bf4 the best choice would be a AMD gpu because you can use mantle support and that really brings a boost. I got like almost 40% better fps turning on mantle. With that said, I still think a intel cpu is better because each core perform better. In other words, just because bf4 use more than 4 cores, does not mean a fx 8350 will perform better than a i5 4670k or similar quad.
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post #1324 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by PachAz View Post

Really, if you play bf4 the best choice would be a AMD gpu because you can use mantle support and that really brings a boost. I got like almost 40% better fps turning on mantle. With that said, I still think a intel cpu is better because each core perform better. In other words, just because bf4 use more than 4 cores, does not mean a fx 8350 will perform better than a i5 4670k or similar quad.

Again, not the original question. Intel is faster per core, been established many times so far.

Is an AMD CPU viable for a mid-high end rig?

imo yes they are, Intel generally is faster but AMD can still do the job.
 
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post #1325 of 1593
I think it's pretty clear: If you're focusing on workloads that do not expose weaknesses of the arch, 8320 is a good value choice

If you have to run stuff (think rts, mmo, a few large-scale FPS games for example) that runs significantly better on 4670k, it's probably silly to get an 8320 to the point where it's not really an option for the build unless you don't care about performance beyond it running "ok-ish"
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post #1326 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

I think it's pretty clear: If you're focusing on workloads that do not expose weaknesses of the arch, 8320 is a good value choice

If you have to run stuff (think rts, mmo, a few large-scale FPS games for example) that runs significantly better on 4670k, it's probably silly to get an 8320 to the point where it's not really an option for the build unless you don't care about performance beyond it running "ok-ish"

what's ok-ish?

I shouldn't have to repeat it that much, Intel is faster but AMD is still a viable choice.

Thats pretty much end of the thread there.

You can argue price, power and how much better an i7 will do the job but at the end of it that's not the question that's asked.
 
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post #1327 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

I think it's pretty clear: If you're focusing on workloads that do not expose weaknesses of the arch, 8320 is a good value choice

If you have to run stuff (think rts, mmo, a few large-scale FPS games for example) that runs significantly better on 4670k, it's probably silly to get an 8320 to the point where it's not really an option for the build unless you don't care about performance beyond it running "ok-ish"

That's a big "if". The majority of workloads will expose the weakness of the FX architecture. The only ones which don't are either heavily threaded integer-heavy apps like 7-Zip or completely GPU-bound games (e.g. testing at 2560x1440 with max AA/details/tessellation).

Actually, even in the 7-Zip benchmark (which offers pretty much a best-case scenario for AMD), a FX chip still will lose to an Intel chip at the same clocks.
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post #1328 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Bilko View Post

Again, not the original question. Intel is faster per core, been established many times so far.

Is an AMD CPU viable for a mid-high end rig?

imo yes they are, Intel generally is faster but AMD can still do the job.
Yes they can do the job in mid end builds, of course. But its hard to justify a AMD fx8320/8350 in a mid end build becuase your budget is high enough to afford intel,unless you want odd balance. I see no problem with a fx8350 and a gtx 770 or r9 290, totally okay mid end gaming rig, but choosing a i5 4670k will cost like 30-50 bucks more and also perform better and be more future proof in majority of games. Thats the same reason people chose 16gb instead of 8gb ram when they were building 2 years ago because ram was so cheap, and also why people are choosing the K grade intel instead of the regular, despite OC gives little performance in terms of fps in games.

If you really should get the best performance you need to customize more depending on the games you are playing. If you for example want 100+ fps and have 120/144hz monitor you need a good gpu and also a good cpu that will not bottleneck. For example I play alot of WOT, that game only use 1 core and hence the perofmance differance between low, mid and high end systems is very small playing on all max graphcis, due to the limitations and odd optimization of the game. How ever, if I would play bf4 or any other fps/mmo that support multicore then a 6-8 core cpu might be a good choice since the game can take advantage of all cores. Most mid end builds are "good" for everything, but you can always balance different depending on the game you are playing.

And if I take the WOT example again, game only use 1 core and hence a cpu with strong individual cores is important and here a i5 at 4.8ghz is probably the best choice you can take because the sandy/ivy/haswell i5/i7 has the best individual core performance. So in this specific example, a intel would probably perform better than a AMD cpu, despite AMD has more cores.
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post #1329 of 1593
Quote:
what's ok-ish?

I shouldn't have to repeat it that much, Intel is faster but AMD is still a viable choice.

Thats pretty much end of the thread there.

If an intel build (£95 board, £165 4670k, £35 cooler, £220 GPU) runs a game 1.3x faster under bad conditions than an AMD build (cost of board to achieve 4.8ghz oc, £110 for 8320, £220 gpu)

then i wouldn't consider the 8320 as a choice, as it's too much of a performance difference

4770k hardly competes with anything for value but you can max OC a 4670k using a £35 air cooler and £95 board. It's hard to compete with that unless you're talking only about well threaded tasks

That's the reality for stuff like RTS/MMO players as well as some niche other games like Planetside 2 - it's not much of a cost saving and it's hardly on the menu, if it's there, for those people. For a mid range build made to play these types of things, it is -not- viable - for other things, maybe it is.
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post #1330 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by PachAz View Post

Yes they can do the job in mid end builds, of course. But its hard to justify a AMD fx8320/8350 in a mid end build becuase your budget is high enough to afford intel,unless you want odd balance. I see no problem with a fx8350 and a gtx 770 or r9 290, totally okay mid end gaming rig, but choosing a i5 4670k will cost like 30-50 bucks more and also perform better and be more future proof in majority of games. Thats the same reason people chose 16gb instead of 8gb ram when they were building 2 years ago because ram was so cheap, and also why people are choosing the K grade intel instead of the regular, despite OC gives little performance in terms of fps in games.

If you really should get the best performance you need to customize more depending on the games you are playing. If you for example want 100+ fps and have 120/144hz monitor you need a good gpu and also a good cpu that will not bottleneck. For example I play alot of WOT, that game only use 1 core and hence the perofmance differance between low, mid and high end systems is very small playing on all max graphcis, due to the limitations and odd optimization of the game. How ever, if I would play bf4 or any other fps/mmo that support multicore then a 6-8 core cpu might be a good choice since the game can take advantage of all cores. Most mid end builds are "good" for everything, but you can always balance different depending on the game you are playing.

And if I take the WOT example again, game only use 1 core and hence a cpu with strong individual cores is important and here a i5 at 4.8ghz is probably the best choice you can take because the sandy/ivy/haswell i5/i7 has the best individual core performance. So in this specific example, a intel would probably perform better than a AMD cpu, despite AMD has more cores.

You didn't qoute the last line of my post rolleyes.gif

But yes, i agree with you, you should build your PC around what you want to do with it.

And the WOT devs should be ashamed of only using one core, thats just silly

If you are mainly playing games that utilize less cores then Intel is an obvious choice but if they are going to be use 4 or more cores then AMD will work just as well in most cases.
 
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Ryze of the Devil
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FX Trooper 2.0
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen Threadripper 1950x (ES) X399 Aorus Gaming 7 Sapphire RX Vega 64 32GB TridentZ RGB 
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240GB HyperX Predator 500GB Samsung 850 Evo 2TB Firecuda EK Predator 360 
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Logitech G933 
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Whatever Logitech G19 Silverstone ST1200w CM Storm Trooper 
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