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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 134  

post #1331 of 1593
I prefer my Phenom II to my I7 Ivy.

Bash me go on rolleyes.gif that's my preference from an enthusiast point of view. Overclocking it, tweaking it, playing with the P-states and seeing the performance difference (stock vs OC'd). It was much more fun than my 3770.

My 3770 was already quick, and ran everything I do the same as my old 1045T @ 4.0Ghz. It does kill any Phenom at stock but I think I prefer the whole "underdog" thing.

AMD is the underdog, some of their processors (note some) are enjoyable and we don't know why, i.e. for my it's the Phenom era.


Intel does perform better, at less watts etc etc but I have always seen Intel as the "stock performer", like it's already quick so there's nothing really to compare it to once overclocked. It really does well tongue.gif

In that regards I'd prefer Intel, a workstation.


But from a gamer and enthusiast view I just prefer the tinkering of AMD and seeing the difference. Intel will always have better IPC, always be better, but there's something of a fact of people who love AMD will always love their chips.


A lot of this thread is pure preference. We know Intel does better but preference dominates tongue.gif


There's some who care about their productivity but for a lot it doesn't matter as much, as "games" isn't exactly productive, nor is web serving etc.




People love cracking a 1Ghz+ OC on their Core 2s and people love hitting that 4Ghz part on their Phenoms, 5Ghz is the "wooo" mark for BD/PD and Sandy/Ivy/Haswell.
I think it's a lot to do with how you enjoy using your chip smile.gif

I.E. for some reason I enjoyed how my 1045T performed at stock tongue.gifno idea why.


However AMD is still viable because it still bleeding runs stuff just fine, and in fact if you take gaming into consideration there's fewer games it struggles with. And even then you'd have to be hitting "more units / AI" for you to start seeing issues.
post #1332 of 1593
Quote:
However AMD is still viable because it still bleeding runs stuff just fine, and in fact if you take gaming into consideration there's fewer games it struggles with. And even then you'd have to be hitting "more units / AI" for you to start seeing issues.

But if you specifically want to do these things, it's like having a comparison between say an r7 260x and a gtx760 - it only makes sense to take one option over another if it's considered an equal performer or it is significantly cheaper, which is where 8320 can be a very hard or impossible sell for playing games where a 4670k would perform better, maxing its OC on a £35 cooler and £95 board

viable for midrange system playing these types of mmo/rts/openworld type games - i don't think so, simply because of significantly worse performance and thus value - you'd never claim a 260x to be viable against a 760 because it still ran stuff ok to your judgement, but with a big loss of FPS, even if it was a little cheaper - but for loads where the CPU's do perform well, they are perfectly viable
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post #1333 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

But if you specifically want to do these things, it's like having a comparison between say an r7 260x and a gtx760 - it only makes sense to take one option over another if it's considered an equal performer or it is significantly cheaper, which is where 8320 can be a very hard or impossible sell for playing games where a 4670k would perform better, maxing its OC on a £35 cooler and £95 board

viable for midrange system playing these types of mmo/rts/openworld type games - i don't think so, simply because of significantly worse performance and thus value - you'd never claim a 260x to be viable against a 760 because it still ran stuff ok to your judgement, but with a big loss of FPS, even if it was a little cheaper - but for loads where the CPU's do perform well, they are perfectly viable

It always comes down to price at the end of the day. You can pick up an R9 260X for quite cheap, or even a HD 7790. A GTX 760 can be considerably more expensive so of course it's viable.

There are people who exist who really don't mind dipping below 30 FPS now and again. Honestly it isn't even that big a deal. People who call themselves "Gamers" will typically go all out for an expensive setup. But not everyone wants to spend a lot on a computer nor want to spend a lot of time on it.

Well I run some RTS and open world games fine, sure I may dip into the low 30s or 20s now and again when there's some heavy load on the CPU but overall the experience is enjoyable.


Also a 4670K + lowest cost board will still cost £100 more than a FX-8320 and a lower cost board (only cheapest decent board that can be recommended at the moment where I am is the Gigabyte 970A-UD3P, 8+2 phase). At stock it's not exactly slow and it will hold up just fine.


But yes I agree, if you specifically want to do something you really should take the CPU into consideration for the given task. But unless you have a specific requirement both parties have decent CPUs at hand.


I think it's kind of bad when people basically rule out AMD chips for stuff because a lot here want "superb performance". There is a reason why the Celeron, Pentium, Athlon exist. There is also a reason why the R5, R7 and lower end GTX 7000 and GT series exist.

There's also a reason why low powered setups exist, like AMD's new Kabini and AM1 socket.


Yes this thread is about "high end" but "high end" is usually a minority of users and more towards business uses. Where an I7 setup is used. AMD doesn't compete in high end because Intel has basically force fed businesses and marketing to buy into their world.

However I'd happily (and have been looking for) an Opteron based server setup. Good money for good performance. There's also there "high end sector" still running very outdated Xeons or even the very old Opterons.

Time and technology moves ... but the truth is a lot of users don't.
post #1334 of 1593
Quote:
Well I run some RTS and open world games fine, sure I may dip into the low 30s or 20s now and again when there's some heavy load on the CPU but overall the experience is enjoyable.

Not enjoyable for me or a ton of other people, even if acceptable for some
Quote:
Also a 4670K + lowest cost board will still cost £100 more than a FX-8320 and a lower cost board (only cheapest decent board that can be recommended at the moment where I am is the Gigabyte 970A-UD3P, 8+2 phase).

4670k costs ~£165 for CPU, ~£95 for mobo to max OC (z87x-d3h) and ~£35 for cooling (hr-02 macho)

You can't undercut that by £100 while ocing an 8320

It's not the lowest cost board, it's what it takes to run a voltage level that will degrade the cpu without having stability questions stemming from mobo, vrm's etc




I think the argument is very solid for this niche, simply put if you have a budget of X and want to run rts/mmo games:

4670k build: £165 CPU - £95 mobo - £35 cooler - £60 2x4gb RAM - £40 PSU - £100 840 evo 250gb - £50 case? - £200 GPU: Total = £745

8320 build: £105 CPU - £100 mobo? - £50 cooler - £60 2x4gb RAM - £40 PSU - £100 840 evo 250gb - £50 case? - £200 GPU: Total = £715


The 4670k build costs ~4.2% more, yet in many of these games, it performs 30% or more better - Guild Wars 2, WoW, sc2, Planetside 2, quite a few more - i maintain that if you're making a midrange build (single gpu of 7950/760 tier) and you want to play CPU bound games - in general - that there is only one option here. I claim inviability for other options in this case (which is probably the one that comes up the most when people are discussing new builds in cpu bound games such as sc2) - but not saying that they're inviable for other loads where you can consistently take advantage of the extra threads
Edited by Cyro999 - 4/5/14 at 2:11pm
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post #1335 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Not enjoyable for me or a ton of other people, even if acceptable for some
4670k costs ~£165 for CPU, ~£95 for mobo to max OC (z87x-d3h) and ~£35 for cooling (hr-02 macho)

You can't undercut that by £100 while ocing an 8320

It's not the lowest cost board, it's what it takes to run a voltage level that will degrade the cpu without having stability questions stemming from mobo, vrm's etc




I think the argument is very solid for this niche, simply put if you have a budget of X and want to run rts/mmo games:

4670k build: £165 CPU - £95 mobo - £35 cooler - £60 2x4gb RAM - £40 PSU - £100 840 evo 250gb - £50 case? - £200 GPU: Total = £745

8320 build: £105 CPU - £100 mobo? - £50 cooler - £60 2x4gb RAM - £40 PSU - £100 840 evo 250gb - £50 case? - £200 GPU: Total = £715


The 4670k build costs ~4.2% more, yet in many of these games, it performs 30% or more better - Guild Wars 2, WoW, sc2, Planetside 2, quite a few more - i maintain that if you're making a midrange build (single gpu of 7950/760 tier) and you want to play CPU bound games - in general - that there is only one option here. I claim inviability for other options in this case (which is probably the one that comes up the most when people are discussing new builds in cpu bound games such as sc2) - but not saying that they're inviable for other loads where you can consistently take advantage of the extra threads
Playable vs. not being playable isn't debatable as its subjective to the user.
Other users already agreed that an 83xx is great for mid-end a long freaking time ago,yet you're still here cutting up the price of a 4670K build without even citing where you're getting prices from?
Wow,just lol.
Edited by Heavy MG - 4/5/14 at 2:15pm
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post #1336 of 1593
Quote:
Playable vs. not being playable isn't debatable as its subjective to the user.
Other users already agreed that an 83xx is great for mid-end a long freaking time ago,yet you're still here cutting up the price of a 4670K build without even citing where you're getting prices from?
Wow,just lol.

Prices cited from ocuk, amazon and general knowledge from checking both two or three times a week since last year
Quote:
Other users already agreed that an 83xx is great for mid-end a long freaking time ago

Not really across OCN, that's why this thread is here. My discussion here is that it's inviable for this niche of builds.
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post #1337 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Prices cited from ocuk, amazon and general knowledge from checking both two or three times a week since last year
Not really across OCN, that's why this thread is here. My discussion here is that it's inviable for this niche of builds.
More like not really,according to the Intel side of the forum. Mid-end is nowhere being "niche".
I can post prices only to prove my point as well,but no one's gonna know what parts I am picking. Prices change all the time,and I actually use my hardware instead of justifying how cheap my rig was,even though it was pretty darn cheap.
The only reason you people are saying it's "inviable" is because the Intel crowd turned the discussion from mid-end to high-end,meanwhile OT is mid-end.
Edited by Heavy MG - 4/5/14 at 2:28pm
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post #1338 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Not enjoyable for me or a ton of other people, even if acceptable for some
4670k costs ~£165 for CPU, ~£95 for mobo to max OC (z87x-d3h) and ~£35 for cooling (hr-02 macho)

You can't undercut that by £100 while ocing an 8320

It's not the lowest cost board, it's what it takes to run a voltage level that will degrade the cpu without having stability questions stemming from mobo, vrm's etc




I think the argument is very solid for this niche, simply put if you have a budget of X and want to run rts/mmo games:

4670k build: £165 CPU - £95 mobo - £35 cooler - £60 2x4gb RAM - £40 PSU - £100 840 evo 250gb - £50 case? - £200 GPU: Total = £745

8320 build: £105 CPU - £100 mobo? - £50 cooler - £60 2x4gb RAM - £40 PSU - £100 840 evo 250gb - £50 case? - £200 GPU: Total = £715


The 4670k build costs ~4.2% more, yet in many of these games, it performs 30% or more better - Guild Wars 2, WoW, sc2, Planetside 2, quite a few more - i maintain that if you're making a midrange build (single gpu of 7950/760 tier) and you want to play CPU bound games - in general - that there is only one option here. I claim inviability for other options in this case (which is probably the one that comes up the most when people are discussing new builds in cpu bound games such as sc2) - but not saying that they're inviable for other loads where you can consistently take advantage of the extra threads
Playable vs. not being playable isn't debatable as its subjective to the user.
Other users already agreed that an 83xx is great for mid-end a long freaking time ago,yet you're still here cutting up the price of a 4670K build without even citing where you're getting prices from?
Wow,just lol.
I think you can also pick an amd cooler for 35£!?
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post #1339 of 1593
Quote:
I can post prices only to prove my point as well,but no one's gonna know what parts I am picking.

I listed parts and prices - if anyone wants to suggest alternatives, they can. I've been building for a while.
Quote:
The only reason you people are saying it's "inviable" is because the Intel crowd turned the discussion from mid-end to high-end

I was unaware a £300 proc/mobo/cooling setup with a ~7950/760 tier GPU was high end - that's what most people that i know have, as it's a step above entry level decent 1080p gaming (i3/6300, 650ti)
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post #1340 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recursion View Post

I think you can also pick an amd cooler for 35£!?
Most universal coolers are cheap,some even better than the 212Evo.
Edited by Heavy MG - 4/5/14 at 2:36pm
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